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gadgets
11-10-2018, 04:31 PM
Hello,
I should ask this to TB customer service, but it's Saturday and I assume they will be closed on Monday (Veteran's day), so I wonder if anybody can help me here.

I received a Guide Edition S25 and try to remove the internal frame and I watched a Youtube video. But both sides of my velcro flap is sewn as you can see in the picture, and I cannot pull the hook and rod out. What am I missing?

21313

Thanks

mcumeda
11-10-2018, 06:44 PM
Mine is the same way. If you just bend the top of the sheet towards the back of the bag, it pops out.

LordAnubis
11-10-2018, 07:28 PM
Yep I also recently ordered an S19 frame and it was the same way. You have to kind of push down the metal bar and bend the top of the plastic sheet back. A bit fiddly but I got there in the end.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

G42
11-10-2018, 07:33 PM
Here's the blog post and video from when TB first released the frame sheets

https://blog.tombihn.com/synapseframe

gadgets
11-10-2018, 07:51 PM
Here's the blog post and video from when TB first released the frame sheets

https://blog.tombihn.com/synapseframe


Thank you. That was the video I watched, and it's not as easy as in the video anymore. I guess some design has changed, and they now sew the sides of the flap and it's very hard to take it off. I tried as others suggested, but I feel like either tearing off the flap or breaking the plastic sheet. Even if I take off, I will not do it again. I don't like the design, and I will probably return this bag.

Thanks for replying.

G42
11-11-2018, 06:57 AM
Thank you. That was the video I watched, and it's not as easy as in the video anymore. I guess some design has changed, and they now sew the sides of the flap and it's very hard to take it off. I tried as others suggested, but I feel like either tearing off the flap or breaking the plastic sheet. Even if I take off, I will not do it again. I don't like the design, and I will probably return this bag.

Thanks for replying.

Understood - if it doesn't work for you, it doesn't work.
If you want to take a last shot, I highly recommend calling TB customer service and outlining your concerns. They may have tips & tricks that alleviate the problem.

I had a hard time with the gate keeper clips (not the frame sheet) until I found out it's 'squeeze, push tab in to unseat, then open tab' - killed myself trying to open the darn things without breaking anything, then had an internal 'duh' moment.

bartleby
11-11-2018, 11:27 AM
I have a S25 GE from the very first batch and the velcro flap is fixed the same way as yours. I also had to fiddle a bit to remove the hook. The material is very flexible and I think it is unlikely to break. I think the internal frame is not really meant to be frequently installed and removed. Personally, I rarely use the internal frame but I am glad to have it just in case.

moriond
11-11-2018, 09:29 PM
Hi @gadgets,

Like @bartleby, I have a S25 GE from the very first batch and the velcro flap is fixed like yours. In addition, when the frame sheets for the Aeronaut 30 and Aeronaut 45 were release, we had a lot of questions from people who wanted to know whether these would work in other bags, and in the case of the Smart Alec, where there were similarly webbing loops for suspending a cache, there were questions about how to suspend either the Aeronaut 30 or Aeronaut 45 frame sheet from the webbing loops. At the time, the only plastic T-bar I had access to were the ones that came with the Synapse 25 GE and the Synapse 19 -- so, because the Aeronaut frame sheets didn't come with a plastic T-bar, the only way that I could perform the experiments for the Smart Alec was by taking removing my Synapse frame sheets and taking apart the T-bar assembly. I had lots of practice removing the Synapse internal frames to pull out the plastic T-bars and transfer them back and forth from the Aeronaut frame sheets. (Eventually, I called customer support and asked if they could send me an extra T-bar so I didn't have to keep taking apart the frame sheets to answer these questions.)

I'll excerpt the beginning of my post #7 (https://forums.tombihn.com/questions-about-bags/13673-a45-frame-sa-wf-post161372.html#post161372) from the A45 Frame in the SA or WF? (https://forums.tombihn.com/questions-about-bags/13673-a45-frame-sa-wf.html) thread. I've highlighted in red the key part of the instructions.


@nimikor,

As a quick answer about the Smart Alec, I think that either the A30 frame sheet or the A45 frame sheet might be usable inside the Smart Alec. The issue is, that you need to secure the frame sheet in the bag -- although, I guess you could try packing the bag full, and having the contents hold the frame sheet in place against the bag.

So, in order to secure the frame sheet to the back of the Smart Alec, you'd want to use a plastic T-bar that slides into the top of the frame sheet pocket that holds the reinforcing bar, and with "wings" that hook into the webbing loops for the cache with rails, similar to the design for Synapse frame sheets.

https://blog.tombihn.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/11/tom-aluminum-frame-t-bar.jpg
This is a picture from the blog of the Synapse frame sheet with the plastic T-bar pulled out of the frame sheet bar's pocket, and lying on the table. The T-bar sits behind the metal bar (that's pulled out in this picture -- although you'll never pull the bar out from its pocket yourself in actual use) at the top of that pocket. (You have to yank the pocket flap up really hard and sort of push back on the parts of the opened pocket flap on either side of the bar to get it to clear the bar -- if you don't pull up at the same time, the top of the bar won't clear the bottom edge of the open flap, and you won't be able to insert or remove the plastic T-bar behind the top of the metal bar. )

When the plastic T-bar is in place, the two wings hook into the webbing loops for the cache, and the rest of the T-bar sits behind the metal bar in the (closed) pocket as in this blog picture for the Synapse frame sheet:

https://blog.tombihn.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/11/25InternalFrame3.jpg

So, to install the A30 or A45 frame sheet into the Smart Alec, you need to get a plastic T-bar (or disassemble one from a Synapse frame sheet).



I'll try to give you step by step instructions, but since I do this with the thumbs of both hands placed on either side of the strip, and simultaneously pinch the webbing to pull it up with a pinch gesture between thumb and index finger while my thumbs are pressing on the webbing to either side, I can't really take pictures at the same time.

21315
Here's a picture of the flap pulled up from your starting picture. Notice that the pulled up portion only goes as far as the heavy stitching to either side allows, and the front of the pulled up webbing does not clear the top of the metal bar.

21316
You need to place your thumbs on either side of the webbing, beside the metal bar. (I can only show one hand, because the other is taking the picture with my cell phone). The idea is that you'll pull up on either side using pinched thumb and index finger to just pop the center of the webbing over the top of the metal bar.

21317
When you're done it will look like this: the sides of the webbing are still held down by the stitching, but the center part of the webbing has just popped over the top of the metal bar

21318
Now you can actually push the top center of the webbing down so that it passes behind the metal bar. From this position you can pull out either the metal bar or the plastic T-bar. If I pull the plastic T-bar up (or push the frame down) to disengage, I make sure to press down on the webbing so that it doesn't catch as you shift the T-bar.

HTH

moriond

gadgets
11-11-2018, 11:16 PM
Hi @moriond and others

Thank you for your instructions. I appreciate. However, I was not able to pull the flap out as you did no matter what.

But...

I think I finally figured it out. I did not even need to open the velcro flap, and it was so simple.

Just lift one of the the black plastic hooks a little bit to unhook and pull it through the webbing loop by sliding sideway along with the frame (while the other hook is still in the loop). Since the loop is larger then the hook, the hook slides out of the loop. Then do the same on the other hook only in the opposite direction. I could have figured it out faster if I didn't watch the instruction video that made me force to remove the velcro flap first. Now that I see, the frame is simply hung on the two webbing loops by the hooks, and everything else (the bar and the velcro flap) was just distraction.

With the internal frame removed, I feel the bag is much more comfortable. Now I remorse that I should have bought a regular S25 not GE. :(

Thanks you all for helps.

Cristina
11-12-2018, 04:12 AM
Hi @moriond and others

Thank you for your instructions. I appreciate. However, I was not able to pull the flap out as you did no matter what.

But...

I think I finally figured it out. I did not even need to open the velcro flap, and it was so simple.

Just lift one of the the black plastic hooks a little bit to unhook and pull it through the webbing loop by sliding sideway along with the frame (while the other hook is still in the loop). Since the loop is larger then the hook, the hook slides out of the loop. Then do the same on the other hook only in the opposite direction. I could have figured it out faster if I didn't watch the instruction video that made me force to remove the velcro flap first. Now that I see, the frame is simply hung on the two webbing loops by the hooks, and everything else (the bar and the velcro flap) was just distraction.

With the internal frame removed, I feel the bag is much more comfortable. Now I remorse that I should have bought a regular S25 not GE. :(

Thanks you all for helps.

Don't despair. There are a lot of people out there who would love to buy from or swap with you, if you do decide you would prefer a regular S25.

tress29
11-12-2018, 06:17 AM
A favorite feature of the GE is the coyote trim. An aubergine and coyote GE has a very different appearance than the solid aubergine.

MatthewR
11-13-2018, 08:41 AM
I do it a little differently than moriond so I'll let you know the way that I do it:

Step 0: Have an bag with a Frame Sheet you want to remove.
Step 1: Fold back the material at the top of the pack to get as unobstructed a work area as possible.
Step 2: Open the velcro tab.
Step 3: Press the velcro tab against the top of the Frame Sheet with the heel of your palm and grasp around the frame sheet and top of the pack so your fingers are resting on the back of the bag.
Step 4: Push using the heel of your palm in/bend the top of the sheet back until you feel a pop from the Frame Sheet.
Step 5: Pull the T-bar out of the now opened Frame Sheet and remove each.

I tend to do this across my lap but if you want some extra leverage you could put the top of your pack over the edge of a table and push down that way.