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    Originally posted by Skirata44 View Post

    So it seems like just like how the Technonaut is an updated Aeronaut, and the Synik is an updated Synapse, the Trinity is going to be an updated version of the Western Flyer/Tri-Star that'll work better with laptops and stuff like that.
    Great description! Also, the smallest Trinity will be smaller than any of those bags, almost as small as a personal item size.

    Comment


      Really hoping that now the Technonaut reveal is done, we'll start getting some more details (and photos) of the Trinity :-)

      Comment


        Originally posted by pcooperllan View Post
        Really hoping that now the Technonaut reveal is done, we'll start getting some more details (and photos) of the Trinity :-)
        I'm sad to say not anytime very soon! At this point, we're estimating a late 2022 release for the Trinity.
        Have a question? @Darcy (to make sure I see it)

        Current carry: testing new potential materials in the form of Original Large Shop Bags.

        Comment


          Someone needs to look at your offerings from the customers’ perspective and work out the optimal presentation and marketing of your new products. Your “Go to market” strategy should minimize risks of blowing up the launch and, as a result, the customers’ trust and affinity towards your brand.
          Monster Truck (Nebulous Gray) Cadet (Steel /NW Sky) Yeoman Duffel Mini (Burnt Orange) Yeoman Duffel Small (Steel)

          Comment


            Originally posted by Chris D. View Post
            Someone needs to look at your offerings from the customers’ perspective and work out the optimal presentation and marketing of your new products. Your “Go to market” strategy should minimize risks of blowing up the launch and, as a result, the customers’ trust and affinity towards your brand.
            I appreciate you taking the time to share with us what isn't working for you! It's been a busy week and my brain isn't at its best for various reasons, so I'd like to make sure I'm understanding: are you offering these suggestions because of the Trinity being delayed further, or because we've shared information about the Trinity as it's been going through the design process, or other things or?

            Looking above just now, I do see my response yesterday with the updated Trinity timeline exceptionally brief (something that's usually hard for me to pull off, heh!) I'm sure everyone's read it by now, but this blog post -- On The Design Process: Inspiration, Timeline, Testing -- shares more about why designs are delayed at times. Here's that part of the post:

            The development timeline of new designs is influenced by:
            • How busy we are running our small business. Internal projects can sidetrack design. For example: over the past few years, we’ve designed and programmed our own inventory and production management software, implemented our new inventory scanning/tracking system, rebuilt nearly our entire website on a new platform, and reviewed, documented, and improved all customer service and shipping-related procedures.
            • How inspiration waxes and wanes. It may be there for a week and gone the next three weeks—or three years. We don’t push it or force it; in our experience, design driven by inspiration is far superior to design forced to meet a timeline.
            • Research into and development of new materials that’ll make the new design truly sing.
            • Engineering the manufacturing of the design so that it is ... manufacturable.
            • Configuring a new sewing machine set-up, folder*, or ordering dies* to make the design efficiently manufacturable.
            • Staff time to either make the bag or make the debut happen. We have decided we’re happy with the size of our company more-or-less—with 47 people, we’re big enough to do stuff like develop custom fabrics and small enough that we’re all still working here together under one roof in Seattle. Having a smaller company/crew means there’s less redundancy—if someone takes family leave because they’re having a baby or someone else has major surgery (these two things have happened recently/are happening right now FYI), we rally to cover their work or make do so they can take time without worrying about it. That can mean that new releases or debuts or other projects get delayed because we don’t have our full crew on deck. With the rare exception around the holiday season, our crew doesn’t work overtime. Tom, Nik, and I often work in excess of forty hours each week, but that’s because we want to.
            • The fact that many design ideas don’t make their way to fruition. This excerpt from Tom's most recent newsletter update sums it up well: At the same time, we’re experimenting with and developing new fabrics (my Taber testing machine is getting a workout!), new webbing, and new zippers. And I realize (once again), that more often than not, these forays start off with high hopes but yield nothing new that we can actually use—they're good ideas that turn out to be not-so-good realities. Indeed, life would be much different (though far less interesting, IMHO) if one knew in advance which was going to be a gold mine and which a rabbit hole. But the few fabrics that work well, and the few designs that rise above the others, make it all worthwhile.
            Have a question? @Darcy (to make sure I see it)

            Current carry: testing new potential materials in the form of Original Large Shop Bags.

            Comment


              Originally posted by Darcy View Post

              I'd like to make sure I'm understanding: are you offering these suggestions because of the Trinity being delayed further, or because we've shared information about the Trinity as it's been going through the design process, or other things or?
              Maybe tangential to Chris D.'s point, one thing I love is the concept of Tom Bihn Labs for new products:

              i.e., "these are products we believe people [for reasons] will like for at least one production run & available by pre-order; when & if TBL products are added to our standard ready-to-purchase website stock is TBD"

              For me, it's a PERFECT way to engage customers in the messy development process, while also drawing a line between what's available and what's brainstorming ...


              If I've summarised that correctly (and I probably haven't ), then I'd say there could be a few messaging additions:

              (1.) Clarify all new products (??) are Tom Bihn Labs (i.e., techonaut, Trinity) with visual confirmation on the website ("hey y'all, you're in the TBL products area"), maybe with a new logo up top or similar & link to the explanation - of course if that's true since I'm just making up that it is

              (2.) For each TBL pre-order & limited product, create an indicator (e.g., breadcrumbs) to show how close it is to a standard-in-stock product (e.g.,: pre-order > limited prod > std product). Thus something like the Techonaut = pre-order, LGD = limited, S22/30 = standard production thus no longer TBL. Each category would have it's definition (e.g., pre-order may never happen again, limited was a pre-order and having a 2nd run but may never happen again or may become standard)

              (3.) Create a new TBL Research category with its own progress indicator for the TBL development process, e.g., conceptualizing > early-stage design > field prototyping > production testing > pre-order prep. This would be a place to detail the Trinity and previously the Techonaut, with bright-flashing-lights disclaimer: don't plan on these products ever coming to fruition!


              As a customer, having this info right on the main website would be awesome, i.e.,

              ● Main: here are the standard in-stock / in-production products, but click here for TB Labs products
              ● TBL: here are the pre-order products happening right now, here are the limited products, but click to see what's cooking at the experiments table
              ● TBL Research: here's the scoop on things we're cooking up, but we may cycle and/or at any time cancel with maybe the exception of "pre-order prep" - so, for example, maybe 3 weeks ago the Techonaut would've entered this stage which would tell customers "in the next 6ish weeks this product will likely enter TBL pre-order status"

              In this way, right from the web site, customer would know where every product stands and have plenty of head's up on pre-orders & limited runs

              Apologies for the lack of brevity and/or of course, just my 2 cents!
              Last edited by GrussGott; 07-30-2021, 04:05 PM.
              Seeking Verde Aeronauts

              Comment


                it's fun to keep checking in with the TB website and forums to see the new DESIGN LAB products and updates

                I like the fact these products have the DESIGN LAB name and the cool black label

                in terms of pre-order prep for the techonaut release, I feel there was plenty of lead time, and the pre-order date was clearly communicated.

                thank you Tom Bihn crew for keeping it interesting with new designs!

                Comment


                  My understanding of the design and production processes has been that I don't count on a new item until it's offered for pre-order - unreleased products aren't guaranteed. Talking about new designs, such as the Trinity, on these forums and having occasional newsletter/blog updates is not the same as having a product page on the website. I think adding more sections and types of pages to the website would be confusing and create too much work because webpages are static while the forums are dynamic.
                  Putting up a product page is creating an expectation of imminent availability, discussing a design here with nebulous release dates is not.

                  Comment


                    Originally posted by Chris D. View Post
                    Someone needs to look at your offerings from the customers’ perspective and work out the optimal presentation and marketing of your new products. Your “Go to market” strategy should minimize risks of blowing up the launch and, as a result, the customers’ trust and affinity towards your brand.
                    Disappointment is when performance doesn’t meet expectations. Inversely if expectations are too low incompetence is assumed. Customers are fickle.

                    Bags are many people’s tools of the trade. The customer engagement by the company in these tools creates a vested interest of customers wanting profitable tools or latest fashion now. If you can't have a tool that will improve your business, it is has a high mental and economic cost. In the big picture TB bags are cheap tools compared to other tools and hobbies.

                    Company doesn’t have a problem with demand. A fixed company size and production matching a steady customer buying. Invert the business from now and add production could draw inline to demand and then inventory becomes consistent. Then the FOMO sales tactic is lost. Drop colors to tighten SKU’s and multiples buying drops. It appears they acknowledge their privilege of benevolent dictatorship like a CSA farm deciding what the customers get.

                    Hours per week. It is not the clocked hours; it is what is accomplished. The sooner we can retire that arbitrary number, the faster we can recognize achievement over time input.

                    As with many things, c’est la vie.

                    Comment


                      I hate to keep posting / pestering here, but I'm just so dang excited! (( No rush - I'll buy your bags regardless whether it's 2022 or later! ))

                      I wanted to pop in with a question or two... though I do somewhat doubt that Darcy will be able to answer, given how far out things are. But hey, maybe I'll get lucky and it was already answered!

                      What is the internal organization on the Trinity likely to be most like?

                      I guess what I really want most is more like a 30-40L Pilot. I adore internal organization, and the interiors of the Pilot, Synapse, etc. are simple yet diverse. The Tri-Star looks on paper to be exactly what I want - loads of organization! - but I use packing cubes and the Tri-Star is really designed around someone who is going to use the straps and zippers on the interior for their organization. The Western Flyer is better, though still has some of those features, but it's a bit small for what I want to use the bag for. The Red Oxx PR5 works, but it's more of a duffel and the interior organization is lacking. The Pilot (fav TB bag!) is lovely - there's a lot of different places to store things between all the different compartments and pockets, but no extra interior zippers/ties/straps integrated into the design.

                      Any idea on the Trinity in this context? If not no worries!
                      Last edited by BowTrek; 08-03-2021, 10:01 AM.

                      Comment


                        Originally posted by BowTrek View Post

                        I use packing cubes and the Tri-Star is really designed around someone who is going to use the straps and zippers on the interior for their organization. The Western Flyer is better, though still has some of those features, but it's a bit small for what I want to use the bag for.
                        I have both, and find the zipper/straps makes packing cube style easier vs used in place of it ... The WF has been my main 5-days-or-less domestic bag for many years, am newer to the Tristar, but it already has 3 trips totaling 5 weeks on it!

                        Personally, while I use the "straps & zippers", I also use packing cubes. So, for example, my typical TS pack lately is:

                        Back section: EC large packing cube (TB large cubes weren't available then), strapped in
                        Click image for larger version  Name:	fetch?id=332627.jpg Views:	0 Size:	561.8 KB ID:	334762
                        Center Section: laptop in a cache
                        Front Section, Left Half: tripod, DSLR, lenses, jackets rolled up, open space for tossing extra things along the way
                        Front Section, Right Half: dopp kit

                        Click image for larger version  Name:	fetch?id=332192.png Views:	0 Size:	1.95 MB ID:	334763
                        In the pic above I've got my gym shoes, media PCSB, and other items in the S25GE. If I needed more clothes I'd unzip the TS front divider and use it for a 2nd EC packing cube and move that other stuff to my 2nd bag (an S25, S30, or WF)

                        My WF packout isn't that much different, but the laptop goes into the backpack strap compartment. Occasionally I'll put my gym shoes in the front left & media kit in the front right (LSC):

                        Click image for larger version  Name:	fetch?id=333993.jpg Views:	0 Size:	840.3 KB ID:	334764

                        The zippered section also makes a great shelf in backpack mode to help protect boxy fragile stuff (pastries) from heavy stuff like a DSLR:

                        Click image for larger version

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                        TLDR: I'm a packing cube packer and find both the WF & TS to be ideal for this style - I'd say designed for it; I use the zippers/straps to assist with packing cubes vs in place of it. While I typically use 1 large cube / section, one could break this up into multiple cubes

                        BONUS: I also use an MT for a laundry bag once I'm settled in the hotel: it's perfect to separate clothes and carry quarters!
                        Last edited by GrussGott; 08-03-2021, 02:25 PM.
                        Seeking Verde Aeronauts

                        Comment


                          I would be lying if I said I wasn't disappointed with the Trinity news, but then I went to look for my "Plan B" bag and it's even worse.. It looks like the WF is no longer available in Halcyon, do you know if it will be restocked at some point Darcy ?

                          Comment


                            Originally posted by pcooperllan View Post
                            I would be lying if I said I wasn't disappointed with the Trinity news, but then I went to look for my "Plan B" bag and it's even worse.. It looks like the WF is no longer available in Halcyon, do you know if it will be restocked at some point Darcy ?
                            You might also try contacting customer service as they occasionally get returns that don't get relisted right away ... that said, waiting for a WF in NightWalk seems brilliant
                            Seeking Verde Aeronauts

                            Comment


                              Thanks GrussGott ! I'm glad that works so well for you! I still don't think it would help, as I've tried a Tri-Star and really didn't get into the straps (I like to cram things in and dig them out haphazardly, which is why I like different compartments but not too many things like straps within them... but also don't want to cut them out!).

                              But wow those are fantastic pictures! Thanks so much for sharing.

                              You make me want to give the Tri-Star another go.

                              Still hoping the Trinity will be organized in more my style, but if it's not then no worries.

                              Last edited by BowTrek; 08-03-2021, 04:21 PM.

                              Comment


                                Originally posted by BowTrek View Post
                                Thanks GrussGott ! I'm glad that works so well for you! I still don't think it would help, as I've tried a Tri-Star and really didn't get into the straps (I like to cram things in and dig them out haphazardly, which is why I like different compartments but not too many things like straps within them... but also don't want to cut them out!).
                                The TS/WF straps are removable so if you don't use them you can remove them (I just let them lay flat):

                                Click image for larger version  Name:	WFstraps.png Views:	0 Size:	1.95 MB ID:	334779

                                Here's a pack where I just tossed stuff into my WF:

                                Click image for larger version  Name:	WFopen.png Views:	0 Size:	2.04 MB ID:	334780
                                That's 10 t-shirts & 10 boxers, plus 4 pair of jammie boxers in the WF rear compartment just laying them in there and then closing

                                Then I opened the front with the divider zipped, Right half: put 2 rolled jackets, a pair of rolled jeans, room for dopp kit; Left Half: randomly stuffed with more clothes like socks, shorts, etc

                                Click image for larger version  Name:	WFpkdUnzipped.png Views:	0 Size:	1.90 MB ID:	334781

                                Then I put my 16" MBP in the BP strap compartment and zipped everything up:

                                Click image for larger version  Name:	WFpacked.png Views:	0 Size:	1.71 MB ID:	334782

                                This is the WF not even remotely full, but 9 days worth of clothes - add a S30/S25/2ndWF with my DSLR gear, gym shoes, & tech pack and I still have tons of room!

                                If it was a business pack I'd use an EC folder or packing cube or TB DBP as a packing cube.

                                I'd say if you're a roller-crammer or lay it in there crammer, then the TS/WF, OTOH if you're a just-stuff-it-down-to-the-bottom-until-full type of packer, then an Aeronaut, Techonaut, or S30 is likely a much better choice.

                                If you're looking for many smaller internal attached pockets to shove stuff into, then, yeah, TB bags don't have that as much ... the new T30/45 does have the main compartment flap mesh pocket and the side pocket liner to shove stuff behind.

                                Maybe a configurable camera insert could be an option for you - they have the velcro configurable internal compartments?

                                Click image for larger version

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                                HTH!
                                Last edited by GrussGott; 08-03-2021, 05:40 PM.
                                Seeking Verde Aeronauts

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