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    Paragon vs Synapse 25 in packing capacity

    Hello - I currently have a luminary 15 (which I adore and use all the time) and a Synapse 25. I don’t use the Synapse much any more. Partly because of the pandemic or maybe totally because of the pandemic. I’ve been working from home mainly and when I go for a bag to walk around the city it’s always always the Luminary now. For urban carry it’s amazing.

    I originally bought the synapse 25, because I felt my synapse 19 was stuffed regularly if I went to work and stopped for groceries on the way back from work or any other errand which needed carrying. So the Synapse served my purpose well.

    I was thinking that the Paragon may not be for me because it would be a replacement of my Luminary, not Synapse. But i was thinking, because there isn’t the extra organisation of the Synapse, is there more room to actually put things into the main compartment? Is it a lot bigger in that way compared to the Luminary? Or is it a similar size? Is it noticeably smaller than the S25?

    I hope I made sense in my rambling! Any thoughts are welcome, and thank you!

    #2
    Hi TorontoSS, instead of doing a liters-to-liters comparison I would like to ask a philosophical question about pockets. Are you a pocket person? Do you like to compartmentalize and separate your items? I am asking because the S19, S25 and Luminary are all very pockety but the Paragon is not. If I am reading your post correctly (I might not be) then you need some more space in the main compartment sometimes, but are otherwise happy with your bags? Are you wanting to switch to a different style of backpack?

    I am just thinking that maybe augmenting your bag instead of replacing it might be a plan if you like all those pockets. My favorite way to do grocery shopping is a backpack and two Small Shop Bags (turned inside out if I need the extra space for the pockets to sit on the outside). I’m 5’7” but the Large Shop bags bump on the ground if I carry them with straight arms.

    To answer the question you actually asked, yes the Paragon feels enormous compared to the Luminary! I am not next to my bags right now but I can come back and show you a comparison.

    Originally posted by TorontoSS View Post
    Hello - I currently have a luminary 15 (which I adore and use all the time) and a Synapse 25. I don’t use the Synapse much any more. Partly because of the pandemic or maybe totally because of the pandemic. I’ve been working from home mainly and when I go for a bag to walk around the city it’s always always the Luminary now. For urban carry it’s amazing.

    I originally bought the synapse 25, because I felt my synapse 19 was stuffed regularly if I went to work and stopped for groceries on the way back from work or any other errand which needed carrying. So the Synapse served my purpose well.

    I was thinking that the Paragon may not be for me because it would be a replacement of my Luminary, not Synapse. But i was thinking, because there isn’t the extra organisation of the Synapse, is there more room to actually put things into the main compartment? Is it a lot bigger in that way compared to the Luminary? Or is it a similar size? Is it noticeably smaller than the S25?

    I hope I made sense in my rambling! Any thoughts are welcome, and thank you!

    Comment


      #3
      Hi Cristina - you make some super valid points here. Yes the bags I have are very pockety. I like this to a point. I like it on the luminary - and I like it on the synapse but I find I don’t use the synapse ones as much as I think I do. I have a medium cafe Freudian slip. I find it’s useful but in the luminary it takes up too much space in the main compartment. And I don’t need more organisation in the luminary.

      the pockets are good for things like work passes, pens, now masks etc. Kindle, But I also found that when I used them a lot in the synapse (with a water bottle for example) then the bag actually felt quite heavy for me. Does this make sense?

      it’s super helpful to know that the paragons main compartment is bigger than the luminary 15. It does point to the fact I COULD replace the s25 with the the paragon if I wanted to.

      I don’t want to trouble you with photos as I have seen some comparisons with the luminary and s25 in the guides edition post about the paragon (some which you may have posted!)

      Do you have the paragon and luminary and s25? Do you use one more than the other?

      Comment


        #4
        TorontoSS , another way of showing the convo that you and Cristina are having here is look at the volume vs access vs complexity aspect of the bags

        My brain is happier with charts and grids of info, so I'm just using your thread as an excuse here

        Click image for larger version  Name:	Screen Shot 2021-05-16 at 9.11.08 AM.png Views:	1 Size:	35.6 KB ID:	332286


        As you're both alluding to, it's not just the overall range of size involved, but the complexity and division of that space and it's impact on alternate uses.... which is basically what Cristina demonstrates by using oSSB (inside out) to add more of that unstructured space (though her love for pockets/organization still extends to the extent of turning the bags inside out )

        Size wise, the Paragon is a closer swap for the S19 than the S25... Even though the Synapses allocate a bunch of their space to the pockets - that is still part of the volume. It sounds like the main unstructured space may be more of your concern?

        Since you already have the more structured/pocketed L15, S19, and S25 - I would suggest that you consider the Shadow Guide 23 (or even 33), along with the Paragon.
        The SGs are top-loaders so the access is completely different, but they are minimally pocketed and have cavernous main compartments.

        I'll also mention that in terms of shoulder strap/back panel dimensions, the SG33 fits my torso better than the S25 and SN30, even though it has a higher volume.

        Oh, and it's worth noting explicitly of course, that you can add organization through Freudian Slips/Pouches/Stuff Sacks/etc to the more unstructured bags as needed, but you can't take away structure from a pocketed pack....

        ETA - made a table in google docs and screen shot it to add as a photo attachment here so that the table looks pretty...and then replaced with a version including gram weight
        Darcy - not sure if the Paragon and Paragon GE overall weights are correct? The Paragon only lists one weight - no separate listings for 400d halcyon vs 525d ballistic...
        Last edited by G42; 05-16-2021, 09:20 AM.
        I like all the blues and greys...and all the happy citrus colours too! My search unicorn is the Sapphire Dyneema original Small Shop Bag...

        Comment


          #5
          Hi G42, thank you for your wonderful table! I'm all for tables myself. I like to put them into powerpoint myself and then into simple designs without lines...

          In any case - I should clarify, I no longer own an S19. I used to, and then replaced it with the S25 about 2-3 years ago. I'm thinking of the Paragon to replace the S25 as I do find it too big for my needs now. You and Cristina are both right. It's more to do with just litre to litre. The pockets, organisation all matter. I found that the S19 wasn't big enough at the time, because the main compartment would fill up too quickly. The S25 fills up nicely but then it's quite heavy and cumbersome to carry sometime. I'm a woman who's about 5ft 7 for context.

          I love my Luminary - I don't see myself giving that up. Just a great bag for urban settings. I'm just wondering if the Paragon is the right back to replace the s25 or if I'm really making a mistake by buying what should be a replacement for the luminary and replacing the S25 instead. One reason why I am thinking of doing this, is because in one year, I haven't touched my S25! but I also haven't gone to the office in a year...

          Comment


            #6
            Originally posted by TorontoSS View Post
            Hi G42, thank you for your wonderful table! I'm all for tables myself. I like to put them into powerpoint myself and then into simple designs without lines...

            In any case - I should clarify, I no longer own an S19. I used to, and then replaced it with the S25 about 2-3 years ago. I'm thinking of the Paragon to replace the S25 as I do find it too big for my needs now. You and Cristina are both right. It's more to do with just litre to litre. The pockets, organisation all matter. I found that the S19 wasn't big enough at the time, because the main compartment would fill up too quickly. The S25 fills up nicely but then it's quite heavy and cumbersome to carry sometime. I'm a woman who's about 5ft 7 for context.

            I love my Luminary - I don't see myself giving that up. Just a great bag for urban settings. I'm just wondering if the Paragon is the right back to replace the s25 or if I'm really making a mistake by buying what should be a replacement for the luminary and replacing the S25 instead. One reason why I am thinking of doing this, is because in one year, I haven't touched my S25! but I also haven't gone to the office in a year...
            Given your clarification and if overall weight is a consideration, then I'd lean towards the Paragon in 400d halcyon to try. The structure is fairly minimal, the halcyon provides good flexibility & slight weight savings, and it has the same style access as the Luminary 15. The lower capacity vs the Shadow Guide 23 would help restrict the max load you carry too.

            I have to say though, that as much as I gleefully indulge in the Buy All The Bags fun, it is worth mulling further your point of whether you're not grabbing the S25 simply because you haven't needed the capacity during these Covid times... so if you get another bag, will you actually use it?

            By the way, I totally agree with you on the L15 - it's a wonderful urban bag! I also have one of the original Luminary 12s and use that when I know I really don't need to carry much and can downsize from the L15.
            Last edited by G42; 05-16-2021, 09:21 AM.
            I like all the blues and greys...and all the happy citrus colours too! My search unicorn is the Sapphire Dyneema original Small Shop Bag...

            Comment


              #7
              Originally posted by G42 View Post

              It is worth mulling further your point of whether you're not grabbing the S25 simply because you haven't needed the capacity during these Covid times...
              FWIW, to this exact point, I have an S25GE that I hadn't even opened as it came right as the covid stuff happened and work got quite busy ... so I put it up for trade, but now I'm on my first post-covid trip and I decided to bring it ... and now, nope, not willing to trade it, it's perfect!

              Seeking Verde Aeronauts and Ursa or Coyote Synik 30 GE

              Comment


                #8
                G42 thanks for an excellent table! I love it. I also second your suggestion to consider the Shadow Guide.

                TorontoSS These days I tend to gravitate towards a couple of regular bag configurations:

                For shopping: Shadow Guide 23 with Icon in top pocket for my handbag stuff and two Small Shop bags in main pocket.

                For an afternoon in the park with the kids: a Parental Unit inside a Haglofs Corker backpack (it is side opening)

                For being by myself just doing random errands:
                Icon or LGD or as of today, Luminary 15 (thanks for the prompt).

                You’ll notice the Synapse 25 isn’t on the list, not for any reason but I tend to get in a habit with a bag configuration and stick with it. I do love my Synapse 25 and I will revisit this configuration again when summer properly hits and we are in the park all the time. I think the reason I stopped using it for the park was that I just needed so much stuff that I ended up taking an insulated tote as a separate picnic bag, which meant my first bag could be slightly smaller.

                Is there a plan for you to go back into the office? If you’re going back at any point in the near future I might wait and see if the S25 met your needs again, but if this is a permanent move away from the office then it’s perfectly fair to reassess your needs and downsize your bag.

                Comment


                  #9
                  Cristina G42 GrussGott
                  So I received very helpful, sound, sensible advice from everyone here. Thank you everyone!

                  But...I didn’t take it...and have now placed an order for a Guides Edition Blue Paragon.

                  You all made a very good point that when we start going back to the office, I’ll miss my Synapse. You all may be right, but what I really missed even before the pandemic was a dedicated laptop section. It works so well on the Luminary. I will eventually go back to the office but I imagine it will be a few days a week. This means carrying a laptop back and forth regularly.

                  I’ll let you know how it goes. Thank you so much for all of your helpful advice!

                  Comment


                    #10
                    TorontoSS congrats!! Please let us know how you like it. The Deep Blue GE is such a lovely color combo.

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Is it just me or is the Discussion of New Colours, New Bags thread missing?

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Originally posted by TorontoSS View Post
                        Is it just me or is the Discussion of New Colours, New Bags thread missing?
                        Yep - we're trying to figure that out.
                        I like all the blues and greys...and all the happy citrus colours too! My search unicorn is the Sapphire Dyneema original Small Shop Bag...

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Originally posted by TorontoSS View Post
                          Cristina G42 GrussGott
                          So I received very helpful, sound, sensible advice from everyone here. Thank you everyone!

                          But...I didn’t take it...and have now placed an order for a Guides Edition Blue Paragon.

                          You all made a very good point that when we start going back to the office, I’ll miss my Synapse. You all may be right, but what I really missed even before the pandemic was a dedicated laptop section. It works so well on the Luminary. I will eventually go back to the office but I imagine it will be a few days a week. This means carrying a laptop back and forth regularly.

                          I’ll let you know how it goes. Thank you so much for all of your helpful advice!
                          Not to mess with your decision any further, but the Shadow Guide has the built-in laptop side access pocket - in case you want to add that to your order and compare & contrast


                          "The built-in laptop compartment with an exterior side access zipper fits an even wider range of laptops than the Synik 22/Synik 30 thanks to the Shadow Guide's rectangular back panel."
                          I like all the blues and greys...and all the happy citrus colours too! My search unicorn is the Sapphire Dyneema original Small Shop Bag...

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Thanks for trying to enable further! But no the shadow guide isn\t for me I think. The whole drop down style would get me to lose so many things. I know I don’t have many more pockets on the paragon, but i feel I have more control and it seems a lot more work friendly. But thanks for the nudge!

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Originally posted by G42 View Post

                              As you're both alluding to, it's not just the overall range of size involved, but the complexity and division of that space and it's impact on alternate uses.... which is basically what Cristina demonstrates by using oSSB (inside out) to add more of that unstructured space (though her love for pockets/organization still extends to the extent of turning the bags inside out )
                              G42, Cristina, and others

                              I just wanted to follow up with an aside to this statement about the shop bags: you don't have to simply love pockets and organization to use your Shop Bags turned inside out. This notion of using the Shop Bags inverted, so that the contents placed in the pockets on the sides bulge outward instead of inward, thus giving you access to more total volume for the Shop Bag, emerged very early on.

                              There’s an old thread titled Five days with the Shop Bag by rabergnc from 11-20-2008
                              https://forums.tombihn.com/forum/tom...h-the-shop-bag

                              the second post has his picture
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                              The text reads
                              The Shop Sack - while you can't see it all, it has 2 boxes of cereal, two packages of dishwasher cleaner, some clothing, misc. cliff bars, a couple of cans of yams. the bag is inside out. It adds a bunch of space!!
                              Here’s another example posted by monkeylady on 05-10-2014 of her Small UV Shop Bag cradling 8 pots of culinary herbs today at the market.
                              it’s post #96 in the Your Photos are Needed thread
                              https://forums.tombihn.com/forum/tom...041#post103041
                              Click image for larger version  Name:	44B6CEC9-927C-4D6B-B76E-75A0DFA66BEA.png Views:	38 Size:	4.67 MB ID:	332325
                              Originally posted by moriond View Post
                              I like the way the bag has been turned inside out, so the side pockets that were in the interior can be used to carry additional herbs on the outside of the bag (a trick that several people use for increasing the capacity of the shop bags when carrying bottles in these pockets). I also like the hint of the Nordic blue shop bag below.
                              The excerpted photos, which I have directly uploaded again, and the parent linked posts and threads are referenced in my response in Specs on retired Small Shop Bag?
                              https://forums.tombihn.com/forum/tom...small-shop-bag
                              by ThomGault 02-22-2018 If you read through my text response there and also in the linked November 2008 by rabergnc, you’ll see that the side pockets are well-sized for half-gallon milk, juice, etc. On the large shop bag I can insert gallon-size beverage. The pocket design insulates colder (or hotter) items from other grocery items. Both Shop Bag sizes (and their pockets) are suited to optimize different size contents, but you can see that inverting the bags can be used for multiple purposes (e.g.,better thermal isolation, too) as well as more space. I use my shop bags both straight and inverted, depending on what I carry. You can also invert the zip top shop bags, but it’s slightly more awkward, which is why I still prefer the original Shop Bag design. It is possible to also close the inverted zip top shop bags too, by closing the zipper from the underside, but just a little awkward

                              Hope this shows that inverting shop bags for use isn't just for people obsessed with pockets!

                              moriond

                              Last edited by moriond; 05-17-2021, 11:51 PM.

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