Discussion of New Colors, New Designs

[G42]

As much as I too love the huge shot of halcyon, the reality is that it's covered with whatever you pack in there.
We'll have to see in practice how dark it seems, but these are wide open bags so shouldn't be too bad.
It will be interesting to hear what people think once they get bags in hand.

[epeterson]

As much as I too love the huge shot of halcyon, the reality is that it's covered with whatever you pack in there.
We'll have to see in practice how dark it seems, but these are wide open bags so shouldn't be too bad.
It will be interesting to hear what people think once they get bags in hand.

The interior shots remind me of the Road Buddy. FWIW I took mine (Navy) on its first voyage last month and I didn't have any problems finding things in the interior.

[hedd]

Yeah, if you keep small loseable things in the side pockets or mesh, and colorful packing cubes in the dark abyss, then you are in good shape. I am not worried about the functionality and like the idea of a tougher fabric. Overall, I decided to get one.

On the negative side: In my limited experience with Tom Bihn products, the biggest joy comes from opening a bag and finding a neatly sewn swath of silky bright halcyon that is totally different from what is on the outside. You get a sense of uniqueness, quality, durability, and just fun compared to what other companies offer. Ballistic and Cerylon just don't don't get me to the same place. Also, just having a couple panels of halcyon strewn about doesn't come close to the experience of a fully lined bag. I was a little surprised when I opened the Side Effect for the first time, and found no lining on the back side. I get that it helps with cost, but looks half finished. I just don't want to see the waxy coating.

[G42]

hedd there are quite a few TB bags that are single layer material (Yeoman, Truck family, etc) or only have a secondary inner material when & where it's acting as a pocket or divider or some other structural element, like you noticed with the SE... it's how they design, but I get it's not as attractive an aesthetic to you.

[bijoux]

hedd there are quite a few TB bags that are single layer material (Yeoman, Truck family, etc)

These bags are a lot cheaper than the Aeronaut, so I'd be OK with single layer.

The Aeronaut should have the halcyon lining all over

Premium products deserve premium finishing.

[epeterson]

Hmm. Maybe I'm confused, but I interpreted MikeV 's comment to mean that this panel in the Aeronaut has always been "single layer." That single layer used to be halcyon and now it's ballistic, for strength reasons.

[Aeon]

Hmm. Maybe I'm confused, but I interpreted MikeV 's comment to mean that this panel in the Aeronaut has always been "single layer." That single layer used to be halcyon and now it's ballistic, for strength reasons.

Yes, that's how I read Mike's comments as well.

However, the perceived quality of life improvements has diminished. The change to the Aeronauts will mean less wear and tear which is great in the long run but it comes at reduced interior visibility. It's a YMMV situation. You see this from time to time with people's perceptions of what makes a bag "premium." I don't open my bags just to see lining colors (granted, I only buy and vastly prefer low-contrast linings like NWS and Mountain Cerylon), but for a lot of ppl that is one of the reasons why they want/buy a bag to begin with. To have a huge portion of contrasting interior lining disappear, even if it's for structural reasons, is still a downgrade nonetheless. Even more so if they haven't ever had an issue with the original linings to begin with.

[bchaplin]

There are a few reasons why I like Tom Bihn bags and have been a devoted follower for so long:
(1) Quality
(2) That they are made in the U.S. and buying supports a small business and local workers.
(3) Their innovation and creativity, as new designs are created
(4) The great community that's sprung up around them
(5) The fun colors, particularly the interiors

Unfortunately, (5) seems to be disappearing as the Halcyon interiors are slowly receding; bags that used to be fully-lined are now half-lined, and in this case, a different material is being used for the main compartment. It actually does make a difference to me; the colors are an important factor for me and one of the reasons I choose this brand over others.

Well, hoping that factors 1 through 4 remain!

[hedd]

There are a few reasons why I like Tom Bihn bags and have been a devoted follower for so long:
(1) Quality
(2) That they are made in the U.S. and buying supports a small business and local workers.
(3) Their innovation and creativity, as new designs are created
(4) The great community that's sprung up around them
(5) The fun colors, particularly the interiors

Unfortunately, (5) seems to be disappearing as the Halcyon interiors are slowly receding; bags that used to be fully-lined are now half-lined, and in this case, a different material is being used for the main compartment. It actually does make a difference to me; the colors are an important factor for me and the reason I choose this brand over others.

Well, hoping that factors 1 through 4 remain!

Agreed on all counts, and I'll add that I like interacting with companies that:

1) Are driven by the passion of a hands-on owner who is more interested in product than profit
2) Doesn't try to optimize everything. Yes money needs to be made, but it doesn't need to be a race to the bottom. Everyone benefits in a non-optimal company except for investors.

[moriond]

Yeah, if you keep small loseable things in the side pockets or mesh, and colorful packing cubes in the dark abyss, then you are in good shape. I am not worried about the functionality and like the idea of a tougher fabric. Overall, I decided to get one.

On the negative side: In my limited experience with Tom Bihn products, the biggest joy comes from opening a bag and finding a neatly sewn swath of silky bright halcyon that is totally different from what is on the outside. You get a sense of uniqueness, quality, durability, and just fun compared to what other companies offer. Ballistic and Cerylon just don't don't get me to the same place. Also, just having a couple panels of halcyon strewn about doesn't come close to the experience of a fully lined bag. I was a little surprised when I opened the Side Effect for the first time, and found no lining on the back side. I get that it helps with cost, but looks half finished. I just don't want to see the waxy coating.

hedd You joined the forums just a few weeks ago, so I don't know whether you were able to purchase any items from the preorder for 200d Halcyon Side Effects, but they make great bursts of color and are colored Halcyon all through. It took 10 years of asking for thief to make these in 200d colors again, but they did it last February !

[hedd]

hedd You joined the forums just a few weeks ago, so I don't know whether you were able to purchase any items from the preorder for 200d Halcyon Side Effects, but they make great bursts of color and are colored Halcyon all through. It took 10 years of asking for thief to make these in 200d colors again, but they did it last February !

Yeah I am too new for that. Back in February, I was still wondering why people wanted those silly shaped backpacks. Going to the factory store fixed my preconceived notions, and now I'm broke but have a S30, Smart Alec, (ballistic) side effect, and pouches. I'll have to keep an eye out those SEs on the BST.

[bijoux]

Hmm. Maybe I'm confused, but I interpreted MikeV 's comment to mean that this panel in the Aeronaut has always been "single layer." That single layer used to be halcyon and now it's ballistic, for strength reasons.

Since I started reading the forms in 2013, I haven't heard of any Aeronaut lining issues or reference that the 200D halcyon layer is not strong.

In my Aeronaut, the halcyon lining I see in the main base part of the bag is protected by the backpack strap panel. Yes, a single layer, but NO, not really a single layer if that makes sense?

If a single layer of halcyon is not strong enough then other bags that are solely halcyon, packing cube shoulder bag for example, would have much more wear and tear and stress on the fabric. Wear and tear would happen from BOTH sides of the fabric.
1. Sharp/rough items being taken in and out more often could affect interior
2. Exterior of the bag being dragged across concrete/tables etc

Aeon and Bchaplin hit the nail on the head, INTERIORS are very important to us.

[G42]

I think a confounding factor here is that the halcyon in the main compartment of the A30 & A45 (up until now) are not actually linings, even though we use that term a lot.
The construction is more obvious if you turn your bag inside out.

The single layer of halcyon in the main compartment is basically a pocket - it separates the backpack strap area from the main compartment. The rest of the main compartment is the inside of the exterior fabric (or shell as they apparently term it in the factory).
In the end pockets, it forms the rest of the end pocket and is the backing to the exterior slash pocket - the other side of which is the exterior fabric.

The Techonaut has similar areas... what seems like lining is one area is actually the exterior pocket and right below it is the inside of the exterior fabric, etc. It's not like there's a full continuous lining of halcyon with no exterior fabric visible.
The overall gestalt is that it's lined with a lovely burst of halcyon, but that's not actually true.

Per MikeV it was done for overall manufacturing efficiency and to improve the strength of the construction. We don't have visibility to the vast majority of customers who buy these bags (as has been said in other posts, we're an echo chamber here) and where the repetitive stress point/repairs are for the population of produced bags.

Considering the warranty TB provides and overall continuous improvement however, it makes sense that they're always looking at what can be tweaked.

I am obviously biased in that I like the TB business model & products, spend a lot of money with them, and trust that they're the design experts. Possibly more importantly, I support and enjoy the fact that they go their own way - it's literally in their company philosophy https://www.tombihn.com/pages/company-philosophy
They also have a history of changing/updating designs over the years.

FWIW, I told Mike that I think the changes will be positive for people new to the bag; mixed feelings for those familiar who were waiting & wanting the big shot of halcyon; and a disincentive for those (like me) who would maybe buy an additional one just for the colour combo. However, it's overall such a proven and solid bag, that I think it will continue to attract new enthusiasts. Only time will tell.


None of which is to refute or diminish anyone's concern with the changes!

We know TB reads these Forums along with all the other customer feedback channels they have, so everyone is being heard.

[G42]

and on a completely separate note... GrussGott - have you looked at the WF page lately?

[GrussGott]

and on a completely separate note... GrussGott - have you looked at the WF page lately?

Thanks for the heads up!! So glad to see they're making more ... if only i could get a 1050 verde ... MikeV I'd for sure take a yeoman fabric 1050 verde! and don't care about the lining color ... Just sayin my birthday was recent soooo ... you know ....