New bag alert: the Bantam!

[Aeon]

Is this single-layer XPac? I would be concerned about buying anything unlined at this point, because I've had a few bad experiences with fabrics peeling (on my Everyday Cubelet, for example, and the one-layer sides of every Pilot and Co-Pilot I've owned). Also not crazy about the size of the logo in comparison to the bag. However, I have enough slings at this point so it wouldn't really be on the table for me anyway. Hope it sells well, and perhaps modifications can be incorporated down the line.

To be clear, are you saying that the single-layer fabric peeled or the waterproof coating (IIRC) peeled on the single-layer portions of your bags?

If it's the latter, I've experienced that as well but chock it up to wear and tear. No bag I've ever bought and used regularly will remain as good as new and eventually develops wear. I know this type of wear and tear boils down to personal preference, so it's good to get more clarification from TB.

The saga of the TB labels continue! I remember how fiercely you advocated for the return of the Portable Culture label. It came back (and now seems to have gone away again), so hopefully the scale of the TB labels can be adjusted with the size/style of the bags. I agree that the scale is jarring for such a small bag.

[bchaplin]

To be clear, are you saying that the single-layer fabric peeled or the waterproof coating (IIRC) peeled on the single-layer portions of your bags?

If it's the latter, I've experienced that as well but chock it up to wear and tear. No bag I've ever bought and used regularly will remain as good as new and eventually develops wear. I know this type of wear and tear boils down to personal preference, so it's good to get more clarification from TB.

The saga of the TB labels continue! I remember how fiercely you advocated for the return of the Portable Culture label. It came back (and now seems to have gone away again), so hopefully the scale of the TB labels can be adjusted with the size/style of the bags. I agree that the scale is jarring for such a small bag.

I'm pointing out that the waterproof coating peels -- and if there is a single layer of fabric rather than a lined layer, it is noticeable. For me, it's a big issue and I pretty much stop using it. For some reason, it's been a huge issue on the bags I mentioned with single layers, though not on others. I guess I'm asking if we should expect the same with the Bantam and XPac; I'm not sure.

Ha ha, yes, I am already sad that the Portable Culture part of the label has gone away. I liked that, I liked the Blackout versions, and I liked the blue version that appeared on the Zeitgeists. But for small bags, I think a Side Effect-style would be better.

[moriond]

I'm pointing out that the waterproof coating peels -- and if there is a single layer of fabric rather than a lined layer, it is noticeable. For me, it's a big issue and I pretty much stop using it. For some reason, it's been a huge issue on the bags I mentioned with single layers, though not on others. I guess I'm asking if we should expect the same with the Bantam and XPac; I'm not sure.

Ha ha, yes, I am already sad that the Portable Culture part of the label has gone away. I liked that, I liked the Blackout versions, and I liked the blue version that appeared on the Zeitgeists. But for small bags, I think a Side Effect-style would be better.

I’ve had a Lux bag (Swift Predecessor) in 1050d crimson Ballistic Nylon for something like 17 years, and the waterproof coating on the inside does peel after about 8 years of continuous use. But after the transition the inside just basically looks like the outside. I could recoat the entire interior with Nikwax. Maybe if I chose colors like black 1050d Ballistic Nylon the transition would be more noticeable and bother me. It’s probably aggravated by carrying all sorts of lumpy things in the tote — I tend to flat pack my travel bags like the TriStar and Western Flyer.

Just my opinion YMMV. I bet someone who looked at the inside of my LUX wouldn’t be able to tell it had gone through the delamination of the waterproof coating layer. I’m not about to sell or trade away my LUX, so I doubt anyone will comment about this anyway

moriond

ETA: And this bag does have the original Portable Culture label

[G42]

Is the interior side (shiny side) of the material even coated?

https://www.tombihn.com/pages/materials#x-pac-rx-30

"In the RX30, the backing fabric is a thin film of polyester, the middle layer is Dimension Polyant's X-Ply® material made with post-consumer recycled polyester, and the face is a 300 denier 100% recycled polyester. It's finished off with a PFC Free DWR."

[Chicagoan]

Is the interior side (shiny side) of the material even coated?

https://www.tombihn.com/pages/materials#x-pac-rx-30

"In the RX30, the backing fabric is a thin film of polyester, the middle layer is Dimension Polyant's X-Ply® material made with post-consumer recycled polyester, and the face is a 300 denier 100% recycled polyester. It's finished off with a PFC Free DWR."

Unless I'm mistaken, Xpac is always a tri-lamiante (three layer) fabric - or at least that's the only composition I'm familiar with.

Durable face fabric outer, reinforced diamond grid middle, waterproof backer lining.

Most my Xpac bags have a white face on the interior, so the fact TB sourced a version with a shiny black backer is a new one by me.

[G42]

Yes, they seem to do 3ply laminates and some 4 ply too.

This specific construction seems to be for the max environmental claims.

From the Dimension-Polyant site:

"DWR
300 denier 100% Recycled Polyester Face
Black post-consumer recycled polyester X-PLY® at 22°
0.5 mil polyester film"

To me, this reads that this new spec does not have or need an interior coating

bchaplin I support your preferences for the Portable Culture labels, I like them too. I'm ok with the other label variants though and generally don't mind them changing back and forth over time.

Definitely agree that having the large label vs the small side labels as on the current Side Kicks and Side Effects is an unwelcome design choice.

[MikeV]

These questions and feedback about the fabrics, and coatings, is really helpful and interesting to read through.

The Bantam is an un-lined bag. The inside of the face-side out bags is the shiny laminated side, and the inside of the Reverse Black X-Pac is the matte finish face-side of the fabric.

X-Pac is a different type of fabric than ballistic in that it's a laminated fabric, rather than a coated fabric. In laminated fabrics, the multiple layers are bonded together (think wallpapering a room), usually through heat and pressure- in this case you have the face fabric, then the x-grid, then a polyester film (3 layers) that is all bonded together. Many other X-Pac fabrics are 4-layer (including the popular VX21) which has an additional layer over the shiny side of the fabric that is usually a white/slightly transparent mesh layer. Generally laminated fabrics are more uniform, and while they can delaminate, they don't tend to do so as quickly, or easily as the urethane coating peeling on coated fabrics.

Our ballistic (and Halcyon, and Cordura) are coated fabrics where a urethane coating is applied to the inside face (think painting a room). This can eventually wear away some, and that is what some of you are experiencing. When we first started using the ballistic we use now, we were unhappy with how quickly the urethane coating was wearing away, and we have worked with our supplier to greatly improve this. There is a point where this wear falls into the wear and tear category, but if this happens to your bag, we'd love to hear about it so we can get a gauge of how quickly it is happening.

Also important, and not to be dismissed- all of these fabrics have a DWR (durable water repellant) finish on the outside that is invisible, and not permanent. Ideally this gets re-applied every year or two to maintain that initial line of defense in helping keep your contents dry.

[Jose]

I wanted to piggyback on Mike's post and talk about the internal testing we did.
First we Taber tested both sides (face side and back side) of the Xpac R30 fabric.
Taber testing is a test to determine a fabrics resistance to abrasion.
We were impressed with how well the RX30 fabric performed, and felt at ease with using the backside of the fabric.
We also performed a more extreme test on the RX30 fabric, which involved strapping a large swatch of it to the bottom of our shoes, and walking around outside.
We really abused it, and the fabric showed the signs of the abuse, but we really wanted to test the fabrics limits. The results were once again impressive even under extreme circumstances.

Overall we have been impressed and a bit surprised with how well the fabric has performed.
I have been carrying the bag for a few months now, in rain, snow, sun and it continues to tackle everything i throw at it.

[Chicagoan]

Definitely agree that having the large label vs the small side labels as on the current Side Kicks and Side Effects is an unwelcome design choice.

Yes!!!

Here's another vote for the SK/SE/EC style label!

[bchaplin]

Our ballistic (and Halcyon, and Cordura) are coated fabrics where a urethane coating is applied to the inside face (think painting a room). This can eventually wear away some, and that is what some of you are experiencing. When we first started using the ballistic we use now, we were unhappy with how quickly the urethane coating was wearing away, and we have worked with our supplier to greatly improve this. There is a point where this wear falls into the wear and tear category, but if this happens to your bag, we'd love to hear about it so we can get a gauge of how quickly it is happening.

Thanks, Mike and Jose!

I mentioned that I've had this issue on all of my Pilots and Co-Pilots, except for one that I got second hand, that probably predated the urethane coating. Interestingly, I have a few Everyday Cubelets that were sitting in my closet for the last year or so. I checked recently and one had peeled very badly inside, while the others were fine. I can't remember the age of each one, though.

[Cristina]

Just wanted to add my voice to those who think the logo is too big for this small bag.

On the topic of peeling fabric, I am certain several people in this thread will remember how the cork fabric started to peel after a while. How well does X-PAC age? I am thinking in the 5-10 year range specifically because my first TB bags (not including ones I bought second-hand) are already 7 years old, which is mind-boggling as it feels like 3 to me.

[Airyca]

Really intrigued by this new bag, it looks like it would be a nice pairing with the Zeitgeist as an organizing pouch/bag to use in combo with it. Going to wait and see if more colors will come down the pike!

[Jose]

Really intrigued by this new bag, it looks like it would be a nice pairing with the Zeitgeist as an organizing pouch/bag to use in combo with it. Going to wait and see if more colors will come down the pike!

It works great inside of bags as well. I use one in my Synik 30 for chargers, cables and Mouse as well as my Addax. Attaching it to O-rings is great!

[G42]

Either the system is still loading or the typical 7am release time isn't it - though I note that Mike didn't actually give a time - so, for all the regular humans who work today, what's the dealeo?

MikeV MaiaH Jose

[MikeV]

Sorry for the confusion! We'll put these up a little later this morning- planning for around 10am.