Real talk: is 1050 going away? Because almost no bags still use it ...

[kurt]

I've read a lot of threads about how 1050 ballistic is less popular, thus fewer bags are made with it. Fair enough. Apparently, it's also harder to make bags in 1050 versus 525 or 630, so it's design-dependent. Understandable. But increasingly, fewer and fewer 1050 options have been available or queued up for restock. I've watched heavier-duty 1050 options disappear entirely for travel bags including Western Flyers, Tri-Stars, Techonauts, and Aeronauts as of late. (And before that: even smaller EDCs like the Parental Units, Sprouts, Maker's Bags, etc... were offered in 1050!).

Following this pattern: the Night Flight came out for pre-order late this summer with a dozen color combos, but not one in 1050. That was followed by the Trinity pre-orders starting this month-- also without a 1050 fabric/color choice. Everyone has their own criteria and priorities, but for me, 1050's resistance to scuffing makes it a far more attractive material. I've accepted a downgrade to 525/620 for my Paramour and Luminary ... but a pricey bag like the Trinity without 1050 is a non-starter for me. I also appreciate 400 Halcyon for other useful properties (flexibility, etc...) but it's been made clear for a while why supply-related issues have limited that material (and folks at TB have been communicative about those limitations -- thanks for that, BTW!).

Bottom line: is the approach still "we'll offer a 1050 option or two for most or all bags, at least of certain types" (and if so: which bags, and why are so many 'run out' of that option?)? Or is it really a phase-out situation? Even the Yeoman duffels (the descriptions for which directly boast the 1050 as being the optimal material for this use case) appear to be available in various non-1050 ballistic variants now. Anyway, I can respect that there are reasons to phase it out, I just would like some clarity on it either way. Right now, just looking at how many bags that have been phased out of that material, it looks like a pattern.

EDITING TO ADD: OK, I'm softening my stance a bit. I got my NFTD, and crashed today on a two-wheels vehicles, landing on the bag (!). By all rights, it should have been scratched to heck, but I cleaned it off and there's not a mark. The new 630 ballistic may well be working out better than the 525 in terms of scuffing. It's just anecdotal, but between that and chatting with TB, I'm coming around. I still really like some colors (like verde) that only come in 1050, and prefer that look/feel, but less concerned than I was.

[dirkhaun]

TB - and people in somewhat closer contact with them, like the moderators - keep saying that 1050 is not going away. Most recent post I can find: https://forums.tombihn.com/forum/tom...ge2#post349450

But yes, I've also noticed that it's often missing from bags that offered it before. Like, as you pointed out, the latest batch of Western Flyers. I got a WF in 1050 from the batch before that one, though. Oh, and the latest encore of the Parental Unit definitely had one or two 1050 options (one of which was Coyote).

[epeterson]

I've noticed the same. I was really hoping for Navy 1050d in this last batch of T45s, since they'd made some Navy/Wasabi T30s, but no luck. On a ~$400 bag, I'm not going to settle for a material I don't want.

[PaulT00]

I can't help but feel that actions speak louder. If 1050 isn't going away, tell us when the next batch of bags in 1050 are scheduled for production, and what colours they're going to be in (other than basic black). Until then it doesn't exist. I recently posited that with the all-630d-ballistic offering on the new Trinity, it looks as if TB is moving from a selection of fabrics for different use cases (heavy duty 1050 vs ultralight Halcyon/Parapack - and yes I know there is no more 400 Halcyon, but Parapack would be a similar weight alternative) and toward a "one-size-fits-all" middle-weight option which will be perfect for some portion of the customer base but not for others. Whether that's the case or not, it certainly appears that way right now. The mods keep reiterating that "it's not going away" I know...

(FWIW: if TB made a Night Walk 400 Halcyon Trinity, or one in either olive or navy Parapack 400, preferably lined with zest or some other bright warm colour rather than dull-and-boring (and less functional, to boot) North West Sky grey, I would be putting my money down right away... and yes, I know it's not going to happen. Sigh.)

[G42]

dirkhaun linked to the latest post where I summed up recent history on this and it includes the most recent comment from MikeV (TB Operations Manager) from June this year, reaffirming what he said in March this year https://forums.tombihn.com/forum/tom...137#post346137

So that's direct from the company and the latest status that I know of.

Mike said in March that they'd offer several of the travel bags in 1050 and they did, some of which are still available.

Specifically to the Yeomans, my understanding is that the bags were created to use up 1050 Ballistic material that may have subtle cosmetic blemishes (it's right there in the product description) though I don't know if they also use standard material to make up the batches. Stands to reason that the same theory may apply to the other fabrics, but you'd have to ask.

I suggest that if there is a specific bag you'd like to buy in a particular fabric that you contact TB directly to see what they say, no different than asking about specific colour combos.

[epeterson]

I'd also love to see some bags in parapack, particularly the small bags (Side Hustle/Kick/Effect). I'd particularly be in for a Side Hustle in 400d parapack, since they weren't available in 400d halcyon.

[kurt]

Specifically to the Yeomans, my understanding is that the bags were created to use up 1050 Ballistic material that may have subtle cosmetic blemishes (it's right there in the product description) though I don't know if they also use standard material to make up the batches. Stands to reason that the same theory may apply to the other fabrics, but you'd have to ask.

But *also* from the product description: "The Yeoman is built entirely from our U.S.-made 1050 denier high-tenacity Ballistic nylon." Also: "Because it's made of tough 1050d Ballistic nylon, it can withstand being dragged around." And in the "specs" section, where the list weights for each material variant on their bags, they only list the 1050 details. Someone selecting "black ballistic" for instance might be surprised they're getting something that's *not* 1050 (I almost made that mistake until I thought over the fact that "Deep Blue" has generally been a 525 color -- something other less-rabid Bihn buyers might not notice).

As for asking: point taken. Honestly, the list of bags I'd consider or outright buy if offered in 1050 is ... not small! But I'll start by asking about one or two. The Trinity that got me on this track would would be great to have in 1050, but I'd drop full price on a Paramour, Synik, and while I'm dreaming: a Stowaway, all if offered in a limited-run 1050 edition or something and ... the list goes on

[epeterson]

But *also* from the product description: "The Yeoman is built entirely from our U.S.-made 1050 denier high-tenacity Ballistic nylon." Also: "Because it's made of tough 1050d Ballistic nylon, it can withstand being dragged around." And in the "specs" section, where the list weights for each material variant on their bags, they only list the 1050 details. Someone selecting "black ballistic" for instance might be surprised they're getting something that's *not* 1050 (I almost made that mistake until I thought over the fact that "Deep Blue" has generally been a 525 color -- something other less-rabid Bihn buyers might not notice).

As for asking: point taken. Honestly, the list of bags I'd consider or outright buy if offered in 1050 is ... not small! But I'll start by asking about one or two. The Trinity that got me on this track would would be great to have in 1050, but I'd drop full price on a Paramour, Synik, and while I'm dreaming: a Stowaway, all if offered in a limited-run 1050 edition or something and ... the list goes on

If memory serves, TB started listing just "ballistic" because they were slowly transitioning from 525d to 630d, which are basically interchangeable, and keeping the product pages updated would be difficult. As somebody who strongly prefers the 1050d though, I definitely appreciate it when that distinction (between 1050d and 525/630d) is very clear in the colorway choices.

[G42]

kurt yep, the YD materials section needs some updating... I don't know if they'll bother at this point because I think they're moving on from Cordura (again) now that the supply chains are slowly coming back to normal after the pandemic upheaval... but they should add 630 ballistic if that's going to be a thing.
For ballistic designations, as epeterson said, they dropped the 525 designation during the conversion to 630 and anything's that's 1050 says so in the product drop down, though I get that could be confusing to some folks.

I assume Beaver Camo is slowly being used up since the actual Beaver Transfer Bag for the wildlife folks discontinued quite some time ago (I'd assume that they only need a finite amount of them).
Someone in another thread asked about Boreal 1000d which was launched as a test fabric and only was made in a handful of bags and also isn't showing up much either, so don't know if that material is gone.

I can't track down all the places it's mentioned right now, but TB hasn't been using Parapack regularly, except for Navy on a handful of items, since they discontinued the Guide's Editions a few years ago.

I went back and looked and I believe that the TS, WF, A30, A45, T30, and T45 and the Parental Unit (as dirkhaun mentioned) all have had at least two 1050 colorways at one or more times this calendar year and there's 1050 in the next batch for some of them now.

Totally get people's concern if 1050 is your preferred fabric and you haven't yet acquired all the bags/colorways you want and there's new bags not in your favorite.

Mine is clearly 400d Halcyon (it's in the majority of my posts) for the flexibility primarily and a bit for the look - and I know that they are actively looking for a substitute for that fabric because I check in with them every few months and ask.
It's not as durable as 1050d Ballistic but I value other attributes significantly more, to the extent of not buying certain (or perhaps additional) bags, so I get it.



We had March & June updates, so it's another 3 months on since MikeV 's last 1050d ballistic update, so hopefully he'll chime in on all this when he can.

[latchford]

As for asking: point taken. Honestly, the list of bags I'd consider or outright buy if offered in 1050 is ... not small! But I'll start by asking about one or two. The Trinity that got me on this track would would be great to have in 1050, but I'd drop full price on a Paramour, Synik, and while I'm dreaming: a Stowaway, all if offered in a limited-run 1050 edition or something and ... the list goes on

The Synapse and Synik have never been, and will never be offered in 1050d ballistic because they're impossible to contruct as stated by Darcy. They were only made in Cordura and Halcyon prior to 525d ballistic's introduction.

It’s actually pretty much impossible to construct a Synapse or Synik in 1050d ballistic — it’s just too stiff. One of the reasons we brought in 525d ballistic is that it’s still high tenacity and super durable, yet we can make bags like the Synapse in it.

[MikeV]

I can try to add some clarity here. Our use of 1050d high-tenacity ballistic is evolving. We do have 1050d HT ballistic on hand in several colors, but with the exception of Black, we don't plan to order more colors. There is enough in some colors that it'll last a year or more, based on how many bags we make in that fabric. Some colors will run out sooner.

There are a few factors in this decision but the two primary reasons are that 1050d ballistic doesn't work well for a lot of our bags, and the company we source the fabric from have changed what they offer.

We've made samples of a lot of bags in 1050d ballistic over the years and many key designs don't work well. If you're familiar with Synapses/Syniks in both 400d Halcyon and our 525/630d ballistic, you can see the difference in how these bags push out along the curved seams in the front. Take that another step heavier to 1050 and they really don't push out at all. This limits the usability of those pockets and changes the look and function of the bag overall. This same logic applies to many bags, but is probably most noticeable on a Syn 19/22.

The 1050d HT ballistic that we've always used featured both custom coating and fully custom colors, and the company we got it from stopped producing that base fabric. They do stock a black option and we've been using that for bags that have the heavy bottom material, like Brain Bags and Swifts. But the challenge of dyeing high-tenacity ballistic keeps other colors from being a good option.

The colors that we have good stock in for 1050d are Navy, Burnt Orange, Verde and Coyote. We're getting low in Aubergine, and Steel is pretty much gone. Considering the way sales go, it's likely that we'll continue to offer 1-2 colors at any given time, focused on travel bags. Many of the bags that we used to make in 1050d were deliberately switched several years ago to the lighter ballistic because we think the bags perform better in that fabric- bags like Pilot, Co-Pilot, Maker's Bag, Side Effect, and Side Kick.

I recognize that some folks *really* love this fabric, and I can understand it. It's a terrific fabric if you need burly and structured bags, and are willing to take that at the expense of extra weight.

I hope that sheds some light. Feel free to continue to ask questions in this thread, or reach out to us at [email protected]

[vcdgrips]

Presumptions:

1. All bags are consumables- even Tom Bihn

2. Most bag users to include MIL/GOVT/LEO, if the bag is constructed with Tier 1 500D plus materials, will outlast the user's need for said bag absent trauma that would likely take out ay 1000+d fabric anyway- i.e. burn/slash/chem exposure

3. As such most hard use Tier 1 makers for the MIL/GOVT/LEO market have pivoted hard to 500-630D fabrics because:

a. there are MORE than tough enough
b. they are lighter
c. they are available
d. they are easier to sew with/on

4. Tier 1 EDC/Travel bag makers are doing the same particularly as consumers in this realm seem to want more color choices etc. Even TB's arguable peer, Red Oxx, is moving to sub 500D fabrics for many of their accessories.

Conclusion:

Most folks would and are well served with sub 1050 D fabrics across the board, particularly in the 500-630 range for all but the hardest of uses.

[PaulT00]

MikeV thank you for providing some clarity. I think the issue here is that the message has been "1050 ballistic is not going away", which has caused customers who would like to purchase bags in that specific fabric - and often in colours other than black - to become frustrated at the lack of availability. The reason for the lack of availability is now clear, in that, similar to the sourcing problems with 400d Halcyon, 1050 ballistic in colours other than black is being slowly phased out because you can't get hold of it any more. I fully understand the reasoning now it has been explained, and of course the company is entirely within its rights to manage production any way it likes, but I do feel that the lack of clarity prior to this discussion has resulted in avoidable misunderstandings and frustration due to the messaging allowing expectations to arise which are incompatible with what TB is actually doing, for instance an engaged customer might be "waiting for an A45 in Steel 1050d" which is unlikely ever to happen now. And that's probably not good either for the customer or for TB.

I have a selection of 1050 bags in Aubergine, a favourite colour, which you have now stated is getting low in stock in that fabric and won't be replenished when it's gone. That does mean that I may be looking out for any items becoming available - in much the same way as has happened fairly recently with the Night Walk Halcyon. I get vcdgrips' point that 500/630d ballistic is probably just as good in the real world, but sometimes people want what they want even when there's no real logical reason for it. May we expect clearer messaging in future around "run out" production of items in the remaining 1050 ballistic colours, as has been the case with other materials/colours in the not too distant past? Just to avoid further misunderstandings...

[hedd]

I just want to chime in that I think the maker's bag works best in 1050. The stretchy bottle pockets are elevated off the bottom and only work with a lot of structure. was disappointed that it wasn't used in the latest runs. If you really want to use the ring of pockets to organize a lot of stuff, you have to rig up a support structure with some big items.

[vcdgrips]

Folks want US Prime T-Bones @ 5.99 a pound. Folks want SS Rolexes at retail from an AD in stock like they were pre 2018. The "why" may be multifaceted but it is the "what" that really matters today.

TB has been transparent in the evolution of their fabric choices and the rationales for the same. Some Folks simply hear what they want to hear because they want what they want.

Indeed, this has been a topic of discussion PRE PANDEMIC (MARCH 2020) when "supply chain" became a phrase that more of us came to understand on a personal and experiential level i.e.

https://forums.tombihn.com/forum/tom-bihn-forums/general-bag-discussion/15616-all-bags-changing-from-ballistic-1050-to-525-is-that-a-good-idea

THe search engine here is your friend.

Frankly: in the soft goods realm, you see something you like, made from something you like, you should probably buy when you have the opportunity as fabrics/cuts/materials all change based on availability, customer feedback, internal QC/QA , at the arbitrary and caprice whim of a given decision maker etc.




BOTTOM LINE- TB HAS BEEN MOVING AWAY FROM 1050D SINCE LATE 2019-2020, as discussed on this forum - GOVERN YOURSELVES ACCORDINGLY.