eBay Selling Woes

[G42]

I will be returning it. I did overthink and in this big internet world just need to look out for myself because no one else is. Ebay lesson learned. Thanks for the replies.

Given that they offered the return, I would give them the benefit of the doubt and assume that they didn't remember/know what the actual colour name or fabric was. Not everyone who has a TB bag is part of this happily obsessive community in the Forums

FWIW, my experience has been that if you scan the listings frequently, you'll see that it happens a lot... colour names that never existed when the bag was discontinued are used, I think because they just pick the closest looking color they see on the TB site.
The other thing I've noticed (having sold some stuff on eBay myself) is that if you use the 'suggested' posting type of system, it will fill-in info from a similar listing, even if it has wrong information and I don't think everyone catches it...

eBay is definitely buyer-beware, but all of my TB transactions except one have had the item match the description. On the one item that didn't, even though they didn't offer returns, I had the photos to prove that it was wrong. They issued a refund and took back the bag (a black/solar Smart Alec, so that was a bummer - the Solar was horribly stained)...
I've emailed sellers to tell them about big errors and all of them (so far at least) have immediately corrected their listings, so that's nice.
If I have any doubt about a listing, I email and ask...if they don't answer or are weird about it, I just pass it by.

I'm glad you're returning the bag since it's not the one you want...hopefully a BB that suits you will pop up soon

[organicfarmer]

I wouldn't feel bad about returning, especially if it's offered.

I will be returning it. I did overthink and in this big internet world just need to look out for myself because no one else is. Ebay lesson learned. Thanks for the replies.

[bb93fo57]

I would go with the return. They misrepresented their item, that's on them. It's possible they didn't know what they were selling and just went with what was current on the TB site. They probably knew this and was hoping the buyer wasn't as familiar with TB products and you caught them. I wouldn't feel bad about returning, especially if it's offered.

Agreed! If the item isn't as advertised -- and the seller has offered to do the responsible thing and take it back -- take him/her up on it. Life is too short to keep a bag you don't want!

[bchaplin]

I don't use eBay or even PayPal any more if I can help it. For casual sales I just ask people to snail mail me a check. It's not that I'm a Luddite, as I take advantage of credit card points, mobile deposit, and electronic bill pay through my bank, for example. I just don't like the way those two companies operate

[nolegrl]

Sorry for reopening an old thread, but this thread seemed most relevant and the latest post discussing eBay's buyer and seller relations. I am asking from a buyer's perspective and here in the forum because most seem to have a good moral compass seeing both sides of things. The listing involves a Tom Bihn item from a smaller seller so I guess it is 50-50 chance they are/have been on forum so I assume they are a nice person too.

Situation as brief as I can. I haven't bought on Ebay for 15 years or so. I looked over listings for Tom Bihn items. Couple caught my attention that I wouldn't buy at new price, but used price I decided to place a bid. Won auction on 3 items. Two were wonderful and came as listed. The third item not as described:

Listed: Nebulous grey ballistic/cloud brain bag, all zipper functions, some parts may be missing. No returns.

What I thought I was buying: Nebulous grey = maximum 1 year old, newest design= parts would be available to replace. Won at 80+20 shipping so good price it seemed

What I got: Gray cordura BB (Steel like, but I don't know gray cordura iterations, cordura retired so bag is 2+ years old). Missing triangle water bottle clasp. Look under top little pocket and the loop for the triangle clasp doesn't exist. (internet search puts guess at 8+ years old). Bag condition satisfactory otherwise.

Contacted buyer. Buyer responds quickly. They bought it off ebay and it wasn't specific in the original listing on material. They offered to take return, refund purchase price, shipping, and return shipping. OR issue credit of $20.

Question is 'what is fair to all?' I could be a normal consumer just make the return and be done. My morals follow other points this thread brought up about selling. If I returned the item, this small seller will end up paying $40 in shipping for an $80 item that re-listed may bring (much) less. I could take the $20 credit and have a BB with cordura I don't like and try to trade it away for a like price item thus saving the seller $20 over physical return cost (refund $ vs both 20 shipping +20 return shipping). It's like the shipping companies are the only winners here.

I am probably overthinking this, but being a TB item the morals seem to matter to me.

No worries, eBay is a constant stream of issues. I would go with the return. They misrepresented their item, that's on them. It's possible they didn't know what they were selling and just went with what was current on the TB site. They probably knew this and was hoping the buyer wasn't as familiar with TB products and you caught them. I wouldn't feel bad about returning, especially if it's offered.

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[organicfarmer]

Sorry for reopening an old thread, but this thread seemed most relevant and the latest post discussing eBay's buyer and seller relations. I am asking from a buyer's perspective and here in the forum because most seem to have a good moral compass seeing both sides of things. The listing involves a Tom Bihn item from a smaller seller so I guess it is 50-50 chance they are/have been on forum so I assume they are a nice person too.

Situation as brief as I can. I haven't bought on Ebay for 15 years or so. I looked over listings for Tom Bihn items. Couple caught my attention that I wouldn't buy at new price, but used price I decided to place a bid. Won auction on 3 items. Two were wonderful and came as listed. The third item not as described:

Listed: Nebulous grey ballistic/cloud brain bag, all zipper functions, some parts may be missing. No returns.

What I thought I was buying: Nebulous grey = maximum 1 year old, newest design= parts would be available to replace. Won at 80+20 shipping so good price it seemed

What I got: Gray cordura BB (Steel like, but I don't know gray cordura iterations, cordura retired so bag is 2+ years old). Missing triangle water bottle clasp. Look under top little pocket and the loop for the triangle clasp doesn't exist. (internet search puts guess at 8+ years old). Bag condition satisfactory otherwise.

Contacted buyer. Buyer responds quickly. They bought it off ebay and it wasn't specific in the original listing on material. They offered to take return, refund purchase price, shipping, and return shipping. OR issue credit of $20.

Question is 'what is fair to all?' I could be a normal consumer just make the return and be done. My morals follow other points this thread brought up about selling. If I returned the item, this small seller will end up paying $40 in shipping for an $80 item that re-listed may bring (much) less. I could take the $20 credit and have a BB with cordura I don't like and try to trade it away for a like price item thus saving the seller $20 over physical return cost (refund $ vs both 20 shipping +20 return shipping). It's like the shipping companies are the only winners here.

I am probably overthinking this, but being a TB item the morals seem to matter to me.

[anna2222]

It's finally over! eBay released the hold on my money and closed the case today, I'm guessing the buyer never filed a police report.

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Yay! So glad that worked out for you.

[nolegrl]

It's finally over! eBay released the hold on my money and closed the case today, I'm guessing the buyer never filed a police report.

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[Perseffect]

I've never thought to check Gumtree, have you found other TB stuff there for sale?

I’ve seen the odd one or two things on Gumtree (although nowhere near as many as on eBay). I’m selling a few bits on eBay now but almost ready to pull the listings and put it all on Gumtree.

Also I’m going to start using the forum trade feature here to advertise/highlight the gumtree listings. Just so fed up with eBay.


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[Cristina]

I’m a U.K. eBay seller (and buyer). Granted, most sales go fine but a few don’t. And eBay always sides with the buyer. These infrequent sales are really unfair to honest sellers and put you out of pocket.

I do keep going back to eBay to list items but I’m ready to find another option. We don’t really have craigslist here in the U.K. but a platform called Gumtree seems to work.

However, if posting and using PayPal for payments, you still have to be careful that they don’t make a PayPal claim (who again side more often with buyers). Ive asked buyers to send money as a friend/family option rather than as a purchase to avoid PayPal’s buyer protection.

This may seem a bit unfair to the buyer, but I’m not a business. I’m a personal seller of my personal items. I list honestly and don’t want to be taken advantage of by eBay or PayPal’s buyer biased agenda.


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I've never thought to check Gumtree, have you found other TB stuff there for sale?

[nolegrl]

I’m a U.K. eBay seller (and buyer). Granted, most sales go fine but a few don’t. And eBay always sides with the buyer. These infrequent sales are really unfair to honest sellers and put you out of pocket.

I do keep going back to eBay to list items but I’m ready to find another option. We don’t really have craigslist here in the U.K. but a platform called Gumtree seems to work.

However, if posting and using PayPal for payments, you still have to be careful that they don’t make a PayPal claim (who again side more often with buyers). Ive asked buyers to send money as a friend/family option rather than as a purchase to avoid PayPal’s buyer protection.

This may seem a bit unfair to the buyer, but I’m not a business. I’m a personal seller of my personal items. I list honestly and don’t want to be taken advantage of by eBay or PayPal’s buyer biased agenda.


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Thanks! It sounds like eBay will refund them as long as they provide a police report, so if they comply, they'll get their money (and a free backpack) and I won't need to deal with PayPal. If they don't comply and go to PayPal, I'd be really surprised if they allow a refund.

I see your point about requesting the "friends and family" payment, but I feel like that might get you banned from eBay selling at some point. I'm not sure if it's against their rules to request a different payment type. Also, buyers risk purchasing on eBay because they have protection. A seller can scam a buyer just as easily and as a buyer, I feel better making a purchase knowing I have protection.

Unfortunately, then you get the people like this buyer who take advantage of it. It's crummy when they do it to corporations, but extra crummy when they do it to individual sellers. eBay treats us like a corporate business and we aren't. We don't have endless stock and funds, we're cleaning out our closets and selling what we find. There really needs to be better seller protection for individuals.

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[Perseffect]

I’m a U.K. eBay seller (and buyer). Granted, most sales go fine but a few don’t. And eBay always sides with the buyer. These infrequent sales are really unfair to honest sellers and put you out of pocket.

I do keep going back to eBay to list items but I’m ready to find another option. We don’t really have craigslist here in the U.K. but a platform called Gumtree seems to work.

However, if posting and using PayPal for payments, you still have to be careful that they don’t make a PayPal claim (who again side more often with buyers). Ive asked buyers to send money as a friend/family option rather than as a purchase to avoid PayPal’s buyer protection.

This may seem a bit unfair to the buyer, but I’m not a business. I’m a personal seller of my personal items. I list honestly and don’t want to be taken advantage of by eBay or PayPal’s buyer biased agenda.


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[crossedbooker]

Wow that's a mess. If it comes down to it, I'll just take a loss on this, but out of principle this is just complete bs. It's their word against ours and eBay (it seems) will side with them before us.

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It really is a pile of bs. And ebay will almost always side with the buyer. It's always amazed me because without sellers to sell stuff there wouldn't be buyers and transactions and fees.
One piece of advice for those that choose to fight Paypal and a collection agency: Do it legitimately through paperwork and the law, and you will win. Unlike the cluster**** that is Paypal's regulations, the law has stringent rules without a strong bias based on profit.
Good luck, and I'm sorry for this craptastic situation.

[nolegrl]

Years ago I sold books on ebay. For about five years it helped supplement my income, and I made a decent amount of sales (and feedback). Then, around 2009, ebay drastically changed their rules for paypal disputes and essentially all the buyer had to do was complain about any aspect of the transaction and their money was refunded. I sold a rare book for $300, and lo and behold the buyer had buyer's remorse about a week after receiving it. My description was accurate, item was well packed and arrived two days after payment. But I lost the dispute and the buyer refused to send back the book. Meanwhile my Paypal balance went negative and I refused to authorize a payment to them. I still had to pay my ebay fees and my paypal fees, plus the cost of shipping...So I let them take me to collections, but I fought the collection agency. And I won.

Unfortunately, though I won my paypal account was forcibly closed, and I had to stop selling on ebay. While the financial hit was hard, the headache of dealing with the new rules (that constantly change to benefit the buyer) really wasn't worth it. I miss the old ebay where it featured little sellers instead of massive operations selling goods from China for pennies and was a fair deal. Paypal is a nightmare too if you ever have to deal with their customer service...

Wow that's a mess. If it comes down to it, I'll just take a loss on this, but out of principle this is just complete bs. It's their word against ours and eBay (it seems) will side with them before us.

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[nolegrl]

So I have an update and I am seething.

The dispute period has now passed as of December 31st and I haven't heard anything new. Well, I go to make a purchase with my PayPal account and I'm denied so I login and my account has a negative balance for the amount of the backpack transaction.

I call Paypal, they tell me to contact eBay. Ebay says that the money is put on hold until the case is closed (a month long period). Since I already took it out of PayPal, my balance is negative. I understand this (I guess), but I wish I had some notice. I have no idea how this will impact scheduled transactions from billing agreements.

eBay also reiterated the same thing as before, the buyer has to file a police report. Here is what they told me that's different though...if the buyer files a police report, they win the case and the money is refunded from me. What the frick!

I've filed a police report before and you didn't have to prove anything, just walk in and report.

I told eBay my side: I have proof of the package weight and size when shipped. The post office did not report to me or the buyer damage or an empty box.

How the heck am I responsible for a "stolen" package?. Plus, the damn thing was sitting in the post office for a week before it was redelivered or picked up. Ebay told me in a prior conversation that it was the buyer who had to handle a stolen package issue and I was not at fault in any way. Well, the second they take the money away from me, I am at fault.

This should now be between the post office and the police, eBay and myself can't do anything and the seller shouldn't be out money because of a "stolen package".

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