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  1. #1
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    Small incision/hole in the lining of my SE

    Hi guys,

    Finally got my hands on my first TB products. Am currently very happy with them.. but unfortunately, there are some concerns:
    - There is a small incision/hole right in the center of the lining (the front pocket) on my SE... is this common in all SE? My S25 has it too but it's not visible the same incision/hole was located on hidden edges which is completely fine.
    - Thread stitching seems like they aren't balanced? For example, using the Halcyon "white grid" as a benchmark for horizontal/vertical line, the black thread stitching seems to not follow the lines... I believe this is quite normal as I believe the stitching is straight... but that means the Halycon isn't really exactly straight... if that make any senses?
    - There seems to be tiny threads coming of line of stitches?
    - In general, inconsistent stitching even though they are hidden at corners.

    Maybe the pictures below can elaborate more... it's just my mindset thinking all of these shouldn't be happening and should be perfect but otherwise great buy!

    Thanks!

    Small incision/hole in the lining of my SE-img_20171122_215858-jpg
    Small incision/hole in the lining of my SE-img_20171122_215811-jpg
    Small incision/hole in the lining of my SE-img_20171122_215640-jpg

  2. #2
    Volunteer Moderator Alumni Ilkyway's Avatar
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    Hi H2o-KiD and welcome to the forums!

    These wholes are there for sewing porpuses and appear on different bags in different (always form the outside invisable) places. They never frey or rip or anything and they let the bags been sewn to presiction. I do not know the particulars but this question was asked and answered in the past so I know this much :-)

    For your other concerns I would ask you to contact customer service and check with them if your bag is as it should be: emailus@tombihn.com

    Hope this helps
    Ilkyway
    “Ankh-Morpork people considered that spelling was a sort of optional extra. They believed in it in the same way they believed in punctuation; it didn't matter where you put it so long as it was there.”

    By Sir Terence David John Pratchett from The Truth

  3. #3
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    TB has GREAT customer service! I emailed them recently about my SE and got excellent replies.

    I never noticed a hole before, but I just checked and my SE has one too between the two pockets. I don't see a hole on the other side.

    Small incision/hole in the lining of my SE-image1-jpg
    Small incision/hole in the lining of my SE-image2-jpeg

    The stitching lines up on mine pretty well and has like 1 thread poking out by the o-ring; the stitching along the side where the label is, is neater also and in-line with the edge (not drifting in like yours). My older, very used SE does have a few more threads that stick out, but I figured that was from use (I have no idea if the dyneema and stitching line up in it, and I'm washing it so I have not checked that). I love my other SE (I haven't really used this one as much); it's held up really well for the amount of use (and dirt) I put it through; if there is a hole in it, I never noticed, and it hasn't frayed or gotten bigger or anything like that.
    Last edited by mangosteen; 11-22-2017 at 10:27 AM.

  4. #4
    Volunteer Moderator tpnl's Avatar
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    @moriond, the "source", has provided an answer in a previous post:

    Hole behind Tom Bihn Logo on Shop Bag Normal?

    Short Answer - yes they are normal and are markers made on the fabric to help out the sewing crew.

    Hope this helps

    Cheers!
    TB Ballistic Black/Iberian Dyneema backpacks and briefcases for every occasion together with my cherished Nordic and Solar Dyneema!

  5. #5
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    Thanks for the replies guys!

    So are the uneven stitching a common thing like the first picture as shown? Or the little thread poking out like the second picture?

    Really appreciated, thanks!

  6. #6
    Forum Member nimikor's Avatar
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    The stitching looks fine to me. Enjoy the beauty of a hand made bag. Small incision/hole in the lining of my SE
    DLBC, WF, S19, Pilot, DLBP, PCSB, A30, SA plus other misc goodies.
    “Not all those who wander are lost.” - Bilbo Baggins (J.R.R. Tolkien 1892-1973)

  7. #7
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    I think the uneven stitching is more uncommon than the threads poking out, but probably won't affect bag use? You could ask TB to exchange the bag or if it's going to be a problem. I always thought "hand made" meant, like, sewing by hand, not machine -- which should do straight lines. I think they charge enough for their items that they'd work with you on this, if it bothers you. Their customer service is excellent.

    I believe I got this SE in 2013, and it's been in heavy use since then (5 days a week, several hours a day). (In comparison, previous waist packs I've gotten, from other cheaper brands, have only lasted about a year with the same kind of use, and completely fell apart at the seams and zipper.) The stitching on it is really even, but there are a few threads here and there; I think some of them have gotten longer since I've been using the bag. And actually the long white thread just came out yesterday while I was washing it (by hand! using the recommended mild, environment friendly dish soap). This one is getting its zipper fixed so I didn't contact them about it; I figure they'll see it. If the little black threads bothered me, I'd snip them off, but I think there's always going to be something poking out, since it's the end of the thread and they can only cut it so close. You can ask TB crew if it's ok to snip any long threads.

    Small incision/hole in the lining of my SE-img_1062-jpg
    Two tiny threads poking out on the side opposite the o-ring. those don't bother me and I feel like you can only see them if you look for them.

    Small incision/hole in the lining of my SE-img_1063-jpg
    Long white thread from the zipper side. This just happened. I'm not sure where exactly this one is from. If it wasn't going for repair already, I'd probably ask them about this. But the stitching is even and lines up with the white grid, and all the stitching on the outer edge is good.

    Small incision/hole in the lining of my SE-img_1064-jpg
    One long black thread and a littler black thread on left side.

    They grey-interior SE was meant to be my back-up work bag, in case this one broke, but I haven't had to use it for that purpose, which is kind of amazing, given how often I used to go through waist packs. The black/wasabi is still useable, even with a little zipper glitch, but I am super pleased that they will fix it for free. It means I am more likely get a pop tote! and other TB accessories.
    Last edited by mangosteen; 11-23-2017 at 05:31 AM.

  8. #8
    Forum Member GrussGott's Avatar
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    The most important thing for me with a bulk hand-made bag is that it's got seams of steel and it is first and foremost functionally a rock. All of my Bihn bags are, and I've tested them on that aspect many times.

    Obviously I also want the bag to be externally consistent, but asking for perfection of threads and interior alignment ... well that starts to sound like a $1000 bag I'd commission to exact specifications.

  9. #9
    Volunteer Moderator Alumni Ilkyway's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by H2o-KiD View Post
    Thanks for the replies guys!

    So are the uneven stitching a common thing like the first picture as shown? Or the little thread poking out like the second picture?

    Really appreciated, thanks!
    I am guessing here, but this sounds still a bit unhappy to me. Why not send your pictures to customer service and discuss the matter with them? You can see how long term customers and users of Tom Bihn bags view the matter and I myself am one of them using a Side Effect most every day for the past three years.
    But in the end it is your money you spent and you should be happy about it. So write them and see what comes of it, and of cause, there is also the option of returning the Side Effect and go another direction.

    emailus@tombihn.com just for ease of use ;-)

    Ilkyway

    PS: I too would say hand made means hand stiched. Tom Bihn bags are made with sewing mashines in their factory in Seattle where everything from design over production to customer service is under one roof.
    “Ankh-Morpork people considered that spelling was a sort of optional extra. They believed in it in the same way they believed in punctuation; it didn't matter where you put it so long as it was there.”

    By Sir Terence David John Pratchett from The Truth

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by GrussGott View Post
    Obviously I also want the bag to be externally consistent, but asking for perfection of threads and interior alignment ... well that starts to sound like a $1000 bag I'd commission to exact specifications.
    But mine ARE pretty perfect and aligned? So it doesn't seem so out there for someone else to want that too? I mean, I didn't really check my interior seams until this thread, so it probably wouldn't be something that bothered me, but if it does bother another customer, I feel like they could get another bag with more even stitches.

    ETA: To me, this is like when I contacted a small sunglass company about wanting a different pair of sunglasses because I felt like the one I got had very uneven pattern, resulting in one side of the frame being much darker than the other (essentially the left side was black and the right side was light grey, almost white). There was nothing wrong with the frames and they didn't have to do this (though I would've just returned them, then, instead of exchanging), but it was really great that they did and personally made sure the next pair had more consistent colour. It was a tortoise colour, so some variation is to be expected, but it was a lot more than I liked and made me look wonky. And it's something I would use every day and something that would have bugged me every day. So this is a company I would buy from again and recommend to other people. I don't want to be fussy or rude, but if it is something that I use a lot, I want to be comfortable with it.
    Last edited by mangosteen; 11-24-2017 at 07:45 AM.

  11. #11
    Forum Member GrussGott's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mangosteen View Post
    But mine ARE pretty perfect and aligned? So it doesn't seem so out there for someone else to want that too?
    It's not wrong to want it, just to expect it for the price we're all paying. If TB wants to accommodate, that's great, but then doesn't that set a new expectation for everyone? All of us should now get perfect stitching, no threads, perfect alignment, etc? Maybe we should all check our bags and send them all back for re-issue? That doesn't go to a good place for pricing.

    I guess I see it as a question of what's reasonable, and to me perfection at this price is not reasonable.

    But it would be great if Tom Bihn disagreed me!
    Last edited by GrussGott; 11-24-2017 at 08:19 AM.

  12. #12
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    Eh. If it's within the window for returns/exchanges (currently 60 days, I believe), I don't see a problem with it (I would not expect them to eat the shipping costs either). Is it so different from returning a bag because the colour in person is not the same as it was on screen? Or any other reason for returning/exchanging something that just doesn't work for you, be it size or weight or ability to collect pet hair or whatnot? I would not expect them to refund/exchange anything used or for an indefinite time.

    I mean, I was fully expecting to pay something to have my SE zipper fixed, since it's a few years old and very very used, and it's just SUPER GREAT that they didn't charge me. And like I said, the uneven stitches would not bother me, unless they impeded bag function (like, if the stitching drifts inwards, will it make the pocket smaller? or the stitches weaker?), so I don't know why everyone would feel that way? I only checked mine because I was curious, not bc I would have sent either of them back or been upset, and my point is that they are able to have better stitching on their products (though I've been saying that some small black threads appear to be normal, so idk why that's an issue for you). IDK if the original poster's SE stitching is abnormal for TB or within their range of good/fine, only that mine don't look like that.
    Last edited by mangosteen; 11-24-2017 at 08:50 AM.

  13. #13
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    So... while I was walking my dog, I realized where I think I have been unclear and why we are disagreeing...

    I do NOT think these are examples of defective stitching and subject to the lifetime warranty.

    I do think it's a cosmetic thing, much like colour choices, and should be exchangeable/returnable during the 60 day return policy, if you want to do that and eat the shipping costs. I don't think it's on TB to 'fix'/straighten out the stitches or align them perfectly with the halcyon grid (it's just kind of neat when it does! at least to me), so long as the bag functions properly. I don't see how they would lose money this way, and would gain more customers by making them happy??

    If it were me, and I didn't like it enough to contact customer service in the first place (I find the forum more informal, I guess, and tend to ask questions here first than bother the TB crew right away), I would ask them what the likelihood is of getting another bag with the same stitches/alignment or getting ones that look more like mine. And then return/exchange or not based on their answer.

  14. #14
    Volunteer Moderator Alumni Ilkyway's Avatar
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    This clearification confirms what I thought before: you two are mostly on the same side of the argument.
    And I agree @mangosteen, asking here makes sense to get some opinions and perspective and in case that does not help or actually in any case custumer service is happy to help too.

    Ilkyway
    “Ankh-Morpork people considered that spelling was a sort of optional extra. They believed in it in the same way they believed in punctuation; it didn't matter where you put it so long as it was there.”

    By Sir Terence David John Pratchett from The Truth

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