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  1. #16
    Forum Member bchaplin's Avatar
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    So I don't know if I am completely atypical, but when I finally did figure out how to insert the frame into my A30 and install the hip belt.. it was really uncomfortable for me! Even though the A30 can be heavy, I'm not sure I'm personally better off with the frame. This was carrying it empty, which may not have been a fair test, but because I was actually experiencing some back pain, I didn't want to continue the trial.

    I could have tried adjusting the curvature, but I decided to leave it alone because I'm leaning towards returning it. I prefer to carry the A30 over my shoulder a lot of the time, so I'm not sure that equipment that turns it into more of a full-time backpack was right for me anyway. If I'm in a long line, I just set my bags on the ground.

    No doubt this is just me and possibly my malformed back. Obviously the frames and hip belts are comfortable for a lot of people. But I thought I'd share my experience as a data point.
    ----
    All tyranny needs to gain a foothold is for people of good conscience to remain silent.
    Edmund Burke

  2. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fluff View Post
    The A30 frame is the best fit in the SA, if you're suspending it by the cache loops using a T-bar. The S19 frame is too short (it ends too far from the bottom edge of the bag to provide the weight transfer to the hips). The A45 and S25 frames are almost the same length and are both too tall to rest straight down the back of the SA from the cache loops to the bottom edge of the bag.

    In fact, I'd say that the A30 frame fits really well in the SA. The second picture shows how I've installed the T-bar neatly, pulling the velcro pieces totally together.

    However, note that I am 5'1" and the SA isn't a very long bag. The hip belt does rest on my hips so even without the frame, the hip belt works for me to transfer some weight and with the frame+belt now, it'll probably be even better for me. But if the SA hip belt is too high for you, even a perfectly fitting internal frame might not be a vast improvement.

    Attachment 20693
    Attachment 20694
    Please may I ask - Are you using the padded SA hip belts or just regular strap type?
    Many thanks

  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by KAB View Post
    Please may I ask - Are you using the padded SA hip belts or just regular strap type?
    Many thanks
    I am currently using the padded hip belt with the SA, but in the past I have also used the regular gatekeeper waist strap. The regular strap also worked ok for weight transfer if I had it tightened at the right spot but I prefer the padded belt because it seems easier to for me to quickly adjust and get it right.

  4. #19
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    And returning to the subject of the Aeronaut frames in the Aeronauts....

    I carried an A45 a lot recently, with various loads going from somewhat underpacked (middle section + one end pocket) to severely underpacked (only things in the middle section, and it wasn't even fully stuffed). I don't have pictures of myself but I often ran into the problem described in these two threads:

    https://forums.tombihn.com/questions...pack-mode.html
    https://forums.tombihn.com/questions...-lie-flat.html

    Eventually I learned how to minimize the issue in my A45 by filling the end pocket on the bottom in backpack mode in order to pull down the lower part of the bag somewhat. But that often wasn't the ideal weight distribution for the stuff I was carrying. And I sometimes even have the same issue with my Western Flyer too but it's inconvenient to flatten the back panel by overstuffing the back half of the WF so I just live with the rolled/non-flat back.

    I'm happy to report that the A45 frame of course flattens the back of the A45 even if the bottom end pocket is empty and that an Aeronaut frame (A45 or A30, either one!) in the backpack strap pocket of the WF also does the same. So the new frames are already solving my biggest TB travel bag gripe, even before adding the new hip belts to the setup and getting the benefits of the weight transfer too.

    Bchaplin, did you ever have the rolled/nonflat back panel issue with your A30? I think I might find the new hip belt too fussy on the travel bags (after all I have been used to doing without them so far) but even giving up the weight transfer benefits, I would still keep a frame sheet in the A45 and WF....and perhaps then without the heavy aluminum stay--that is, use the frame sheet only. ? Although removing the stay takes the S curve out completely and the frame sheet alone becomes just a big flat piece of plastic. Experimentation continues....
    Last edited by Fluff; 06-25-2018 at 01:59 PM.

  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fluff View Post
    I am currently using the padded hip belt with the SA, but in the past I have also used the regular gatekeeper waist strap. The regular strap also worked ok for weight transfer if I had it tightened at the right spot but I prefer the padded belt because it seems easier to for me to quickly adjust and get it right.
    Thank you, I must try again with mine....

  6. #21
    Forum Member bchaplin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fluff View Post
    Bchaplin, did you ever have the rolled/nonflat back panel issue with your A30? I think I might find the new hip belt too fussy on the travel bags (after all I have been used to doing without them so far) but even giving up the weight transfer benefits, I would still keep a frame sheet in the A45 and WF....and perhaps then without the heavy aluminum stay--that is, use the frame sheet only. ? Although removing the stay takes the S curve out completely and the frame sheet alone becomes just a big flat piece of plastic. Experimentation continues....
    Thank you - that's interesting. I didn't know the aluminum could be removed. (Of course then I pretty much decide I'm going to keep it, if I go that route.) I'll have to consider that.

    No, I've never had a problem with the back of my Aeronaut "rolling" or anything like that. I only use it a few time a year. It's been very reliable for me.

    Beth
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  7. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by bchaplin View Post
    Thank you - that's interesting. I didn't know the aluminum could be removed. (Of course then I pretty much decide I'm going to keep it, if I go that route.) I'll have to consider that.
    The aluminum slides right out and can be reinserted without any modification or hacking to the frame. You open up the velcro tab on the webbing, and pull up the webbing hard until the top of the aluminum stay "pops" out in front of the top of the webbing. It will seem like you're pulling on the webbing too hard, but it's normal. This is what one has to do on the similar S19/S25 frames to install them with the T-bar into the cache loops. I think there was even a thread about how it's not easy to quickly install and uninstall the S19/S25 frames if you keep changing your mind.

    Once the stay is free at the top of the frame, you can just pull it out of the tube shaped pocket. And you can just reverse the process if you want it back in.

    There's a picture in this blog post where the stay is mostly pulled out:

    https://blog.tombihn.com/guide-backpack-frames

  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by bchaplin View Post
    Thank you - that's interesting. I didn't know the aluminum could be removed. (Of course then I pretty much decide I'm going to keep it, if I go that route.) I'll have to consider that.

    No, I've never had a problem with the back of my Aeronaut "rolling" or anything like that. I only use it a few time a year. It's been very reliable for me.

    Beth
    @Fluff's idea about pulling out the bar in the frame sheet for some uses is a good one. If you look at my post [#7] in the A45 Frame in the SA or WF? thread https://forums.tombihn.com/questions...tml#post161290 the excerpted blog picture shows that you can pull out the bar (though it was mainly used to illustrate the plastic T-bar lying on the table:


    The bar on my A45 frame pulls out easily -- the one on my A30 frame sticks a bit, and I'll probably leave it in. But I might use the A45 frame (sans bar) in the back of my original Nordic/Steel Halcyon Western Flyer. I didn't think a frame was worth the weight in this bag, and I like the comfort of the Halcyon fit in the WF. (This was surprisingly nice -- my first experience where I preferred Halcyon for the travel bag). It doesn't change this quality as much in the Ballistic Nylon WF. Anyway, it's really obvious when I pull out the A45 frame sheet bar that there's too much curvature for my height -- it's actually obvious when I look at the frames, when I fit them directly against my back without a bag, and when I try the A45 frame in my TriStar or WF and it's uncomfortable.

    One other suggestion: you may have to spend some time readjusting the straps if you use the hip belt, because they plug into the hip belt connectors, and it definitely felt less comfortable for me when I first put on the frame and hip belt combination for the A30 with my default backpack strap setting.

    The A45 frame sheet w/o bar can also slip into a filled SA, and get held in place by the packed contents.-- it's not a bad fit to the width and height at the back. I tried this with my Aubergine/Wasabi SA which has the loops for the upper and lower modular pockets, but not the webbing loops for the cache with rails. (I do have vertical Brain Cells matched to the height of the back if I want to carry a laptop)

    HTH

    moriond

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