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  1. #1
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    Internal frame for EDC?

    Hello,

    I have a DLBP and an S25. I like both. I used to have an S19 but found it got over stuffed too often. When I first got my S25 I found it uncomfortably heavy however after a week I felt fine. But I find myself using my DLBP more often simply because it’s lighter. But as you know it’s not a great feel when the bag is stuffed. Especially if I’m carrying my laptop home. I don’t do that often though.

    So I’d like to use my S25 more. My question is, does the internal frame work well for EDC purposes? I don’t stuff my bag a lot.i didn’t buy it initially because I thought it would just add more weight. I’m a 37 year old woman so I can carry stuff around but I’m still sensitive to weight. But as the day progresses I add more things like groceries for example. Would the internal frame work for someone like me who just uses the bag for work and back (not hiking)?

    I don’t use a cache for my computer, I generally just put it in the inside flap (should I get a cache??)

    Thanks!

  2. #2
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    My opinion is that the internal frame makes life better in all instances.

    It was a game changer when I got one for my S25, but didn't think it would be needed for my S19 with smaller loads. Well, sometimes the 19 gets full too and it feels like it bubbles up even more than my 25 did (mostly because of the smaller dimensions), so I picked one up when I stopped by the factory a couple months ago.

    Again, life changing. I use the S19 for around town/beach carry and the frame makes stuffing the bag with additional items throughout the day so much more comfortable. And it's really not that much of a difference in weight, and I think the tradeoff is more than worth it.

  3. #3
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    I like using the framesheet since I prefer the more rigid feel to the back - I just find it more comfortable and better for my posture.
    If I'm regularly carrying a laptop, I don't use the frame as the laptop provides a healthy chunk of rigidity.

    You only need a cache if you're regularly pulling a laptop out for TSA or prefer that type of style... if you've been using the front pocket and it doesn't bother you, keep doing it, unless you want more protection and/or want to try it against your back instead of in the pocket.

    I usually use a neoprene sleeve for my laptops, as it provides a modicum of protection - I'm careful with my bag and don't toss it around.
    I like all the blues and greys...and all the happy citrus colours too! My search unicorn is the Sapphire Dyneema original Small Shop Bag...

  4. #4
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    Thanks for both of your opinions - very helpful. One last question, does the benefit of the grain even come if you donít use the hip belt?

    Thanks!


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by TorontoSS View Post
    Thanks for both of your opinions - very helpful. One last question, does the benefit of the grain even come if you don’t use the hip belt?
    I never use the hipbelt for any of my bags except a fully loaded A45 when I'm schlepping through major holiday travel (the only time I usually carry that much stuff). It all depends on your comfort level - I just don't find even a reasonably heavy bag to worth bothering with the hip belt for travel and EDC. If I was backpacking / through hiking or something, that's a different story... but even after a full day of cars, trains, and planes, only the fully loaded A45 seems worth it and that's partly because at 5'4", the bag is too tall for me and the hip belt helps.

    Many folks do like using the hip belt with and without the frame sheet, so it's going to be a personal thing. As always, test packing is the best way to sort it out if you can. HTH
    I like all the blues and greys...and all the happy citrus colours too! My search unicorn is the Sapphire Dyneema original Small Shop Bag...

  6. #6
    Volunteer Moderator aedifica's Avatar
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    I agree with @G42--I use a hip belt on more bags than she does, but I also find benefit in using the frame sheet without the hip belt (even for EDC). For me part of it is that I like the shape of the S19 and S25 better with the frame sheet, especially if I'm overstuffing the bag! The frame sheet helps a lot with the tendency for the bags to go egg-shaped.
    I have a bunch of great bags. Favorite color combos include Aubergine/Island, Navy/Solar, Forest/UV, Original Halcyon/Wasabi, Cloud/Viridian.

    I've fulfilled my dream of palindromic-colored nested bags! Navy/Ultraviolet Pilot with Aubergine/Island Side Effect inside: blue purple purple blue. Forest/UV A45 with Aubergine/Wasabi Co-Pilot inside: green purple purple green.

  7. #7
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    Thank you very much for clarifying. I also don't like to use hip belts. I find it annoying when they're hanging around and for everyday use I don't find it necessary. The only reason I asked is because many of the reviews of the frame mentioned how the weight shifted to hips and they had worn hip belts.

    I have placed an order now for the internal frame - hope it works out well!

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by TorontoSS View Post
    Thank you very much for clarifying. I also don't like to use hip belts. I find it annoying when they're hanging around and for everyday use I don't find it necessary. The only reason I asked is because many of the reviews of the frame mentioned how the weight shifted to hips and they had worn hip belts.

    I have placed an order now for the internal frame - hope it works out well!
    Yes, with a properly fitted pack, the weight will shift to your hips with a hip belt - which is generally a more comfortable place to carry load than your shoulders, but it really comes down to what weight is comfy for you.

    Good luck - hope the frame works out for you!
    I like all the blues and greys...and all the happy citrus colours too! My search unicorn is the Sapphire Dyneema original Small Shop Bag...

  9. #9
    Forum Member DWSeattle's Avatar
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    The idea of a frame sheet is to transfer the weight from the shoulder straps to a padded hip belt that lands on the "horns" of your pelvis. Then the shoulder straps are more for keeping the bag stable. The distance between the shoulder strap mount and the belt needs to fit your torso length, usually measured from the knob of your neck to the upper edges of your pelvis. Many hiking packs com in several sizes (or should) and that is what the sizing is all about. Women's specific packs should have a more conical cut to the waist belt and an S curve in the shoulder straps.

    Just a frame sheet alone will keep things from pocking you in the back, but that's about it. A sheet of dense foam cut to fit will do about the same thing and can double as a sit pad. Strategic packing to create a column inside a frameless pack can help, but that's usually accomplished by doing something like rolling a sleeping pad into a tube inside the pack and then loading everything else inside that.

    The bottom line? Trying to accomplish true weight transfer in a pack as small as the DLBP is not worth the effort. IMHO, a DLBP is for wallet type items, an extra layer or rain coat, a small camera, guide book and map, snacks and a small water bottle.

    With a dense load in a 25-30 liter or larger bag, then you can get some relief from a weight transfer system The frame sheet and hip belt to make a DLBP effective would weigh as much the pack itself, not to mention the expense. I carry one of those super compact self-storing grocery sacks when I want to haul groceries back to my lodgings. If you want to haul heavier loads for longer distances, you need a bigger pack with padded shoulder straps--- and a frame and padded hip belt for more serious stuff.

  10. #10
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    I very much found the internal frame useful for an EDC on my S25. I basically have a light laptop, a heavy lunch (glass containers), and misc accessories. The solid backing was just more comfortable because I'd never have a random lump in my back. Somewhat mitigated by having the laptop in a cache, but I never liked that/don't always have the laptop. The extra weight I didn't notice. My issue is it's easy to fill the S25, which is the real weight addition, lol.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by DWSeattle View Post
    The idea of a frame sheet is to transfer the weight from the shoulder straps to a padded hip belt that lands on the "horns" of your pelvis. Then the shoulder straps are more for keeping the bag stable. The distance between the shoulder strap mount and the belt needs to fit your torso length, usually measured from the knob of your neck to the upper edges of your pelvis. Many hiking packs com in several sizes (or should) and that is what the sizing is all about. Women's specific packs should have a more conical cut to the waist belt and an S curve in the shoulder straps.

    Just a frame sheet alone will keep things from pocking you in the back, but that's about it. A sheet of dense foam cut to fit will do about the same thing and can double as a sit pad. Strategic packing to create a column inside a frameless pack can help, but that's usually accomplished by doing something like rolling a sleeping pad into a tube inside the pack and then loading everything else inside that.

    The bottom line? Trying to accomplish true weight transfer in a pack as small as the DLBP is not worth the effort. IMHO, a DLBP is for wallet type items, an extra layer or rain coat, a small camera, guide book and map, snacks and a small water bottle.

    With a dense load in a 25-30 liter or larger bag, then you can get some relief from a weight transfer system The frame sheet and hip belt to make a DLBP effective would weigh as much the pack itself, not to mention the expense. I carry one of those super compact self-storing grocery sacks when I want to haul groceries back to my lodgings. If you want to haul heavier loads for longer distances, you need a bigger pack with padded shoulder straps--- and a frame and padded hip belt for more serious stuff.
    Hi there and thank you so much for your detailed and helpful response. I wanted to clarify one thing, I enjoy using my DLBP and don’t want an internal frame in that. The internal frame is for the s25 only. That being said you made a point that the frame only shifts weight if you use a hip belt. As I won’t be using one, does that mean the bag will feel heavier?

    Quote Originally Posted by linh.n View Post
    I very much found the internal frame useful for an EDC on my S25. I basically have a light laptop, a heavy lunch (glass containers), and misc accessories. The solid backing was just more comfortable because I'd never have a random lump in my back. Somewhat mitigated by having the laptop in a cache, but I never liked that/don't always have the laptop. The extra weight I didn't notice. My issue is it's easy to fill the S25, which is the real weight addition, lol.
    Thanks! Out of curiously do you use a hip belt? Do you take out your frame regularly or does it just stay in? Thanks!

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by TorontoSS View Post
    Thanks! Out of curiously do you use a hip belt? Do you take out your frame regularly or does it just stay in? Thanks!
    No, I don't regularly push the limits. I actually don't like the S25 fully packed out much (very curious on the new Synik ...). Also, my commute with the bag is more like random 15 minute bursts, heh

  13. #13
    Forum Member DWSeattle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TorontoSS View Post
    Hi there and thank you so much for your detailed and helpful response. I wanted to clarify one thing, I enjoy using my DLBP and don’t want an internal frame in that. The internal frame is for the s25 only. That being said you made a point that the frame only shifts weight if you use a hip belt. As I won’t be using one, does that mean the bag will feel heavier?



    Thanks! Out of curiously do you use a hip belt? Do you take out your frame regularly or does it just stay in? Thanks!

    I do ultralight hiking and have owned dozens of backpacks over a few decades and have used all sorts of frame/hip belt combinations.

    Some hip belts are for stability. The 1" or so belts are good for runners and cyclists who don't want the load shifting. They won't do anything for real weight transfer, but the stability may make for less stress on your shoulder or neck. The difference is negligible for me and the belt is just added weight and complexity and an opportunity to get tangled. In a travel scenario, a backpack is coming on and off all the time, getting on and off subways and buses, taxis, restaurants, boarding planes and with a small pack, shifting to one shoulder for better crowd clearance and security.

    If I have a fully loaded "onebag" pack with 20+ pounds and I'm going to be walking more than a couple hundred yards, then the frame and padded hip belt really come into play. Likewise if I'm doing a multi-day wilderness hike.

    A lot of this has to do with your personal physique too. Someone with big shoulders and a lot of upper body strength aren't going to feel it like someone with a slimmer upper body build. There have been traditional load recommendations as a percentage of body weight and while not the absolute truth, there is a common sense component to it. 10% of my body weight is 21 pounds, but that is 20% for someone half my weight and less upper body strength too.

    Fitting packs is like fitting shoes and can make you as miserable. If you are using a frame and hipbelt, the pack needs to be fitted. Just putting a frame and belt on a pack that that isn't right for your torso length is a waste of time and money and you might as well go without. Will the bag feel heavier on your shoulders? Yes. When you have a properly fitted and adjusted pack with a frame and hip belt, the shoulder straps are carrying very little weight and perform more for stability: quite literally there to keep the pack from falling over backwards!

    So, you can buy the parts and try it. You could look at sizing measurements from a manufacturer like Osprey and get a rough idea of your torso length and how that compares to a pack you are considering for an upgrade. If you put on a pack (always with a load for sizing) you can see where the hip belt mounts are and the belt should be about the height of the top edges of your pelvis. If you have more body mass, it may need to ride a bit higher to fit the curves. YouTube is a good resource for fitting packs too.

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