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  1. #16
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    Yes, weight and color are also big motivators for me. Save 8 to 10 oz, get the bag in Mars Red or Nebulous Grey, and be kinder to the environment. What's not to like? My 525d TC seems plenty tough and rigid to me in a side by side comparison with my 1050 A45.

  2. #17
    Forum Member Perseffect's Avatar
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    I reached out to the amazing TB team to ask about this. They pointed me to this webpage which is really informative around durability. Hope this helps others who are thinking this one through.


    https://www.tombihn.com/pages/materials



    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Aeronaut 45 (Navy/NWS), A30 (Black/Island), Tristar (Steel/Island), Western Flyer (Steel/Island), Pilot (Steel/Island), Synapse 25 (Mars Red/NWS), Synapse 19 (Black/Island) & (Burnt Orange/Steel), Ristretto 11 (Navy/Steel), Small Cafe Bag (Navy/Steel) & (Mars Red/Dawn), Daylight Briefcase (Cloud/Dawn), Side Kick (Mars Red/Dawn), Travel Cubelet (Mars Red)

  3. #18
    Forum Member Chris D.'s Avatar
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    Good information!
    Thank you so much.

    Chris

  4. #19
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    I don't think there will be an observable difference between the durability of 525 and 1050. Most of us will never use our gear or bags to the point of failure (or even close to failure).

    I do not expect any of the materials (Halcyon, Ballistic and Cordura) that TB uses to ever fail me. I read that Hyperlite Mountain Gear (I do not have any of their bags) uses Dyneema for their backpacks. Might not be the same exact material but if Dyneema works for those sort of backpacks, it should work for me.

    Prior to TB, I used a Eaglecreek Cordura 25L(ish) backpack for 17years. I would like to think I subjected the bag through more jungle treks, tropical rainstorms, sun, sand and snow than most people would do. It was the only backpack I had and it went with me everywhere. When I discarded it, the bag was horribly faded, mold was so entrenched in the material that I couldnt scrub it off but the material did not fail. Worn - yes, a few tiny holes - yes, but honestly nothing that would adversely affect the performance of the bag. The zippers however were blown through because it was constantly overstuffed. The Halcyon S25 has been my replacement.

    Its very difficult to imagine a scenario in everyday carry and travel where the bag would be exposed to so much sustained abuse for it to fail. Now if you want or need your bag to look pristine/new after 20years, that's another matter.

  5. #20
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    I placed an order for a WF immediately after reading this thread. You guys are a bad influence


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  6. #21
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    It's a great bag!

  7. #22
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    Not sure how I feel about this since I don't have a 525 bag in hand, but definitely glad I just picked up an A30 and small Yeoman in 1050 while it's still available.

  8. #23
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    I suspect the 525 ballistic is that sweet spot between the beefy 1050 ballistic and the 400 Halcyon (which I always found too floppy). I do really like the 1050 ballistic for the texture and the stiffness.

  9. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by xsboost View Post
    Not sure how I feel about this since I don't have a 525 bag in hand, but definitely glad I just picked up an A30 and small Yeoman in 1050 while it's still available.
    I take that back. Forgot the daylight briefcase is 525, which I have in front of me right now. I agree with the previous comments on wanting 1050 if there's a possibility the bag will be checked. It's happened with my A45 on a regional jet before.

  10. #25
    Forum Member NYCWriter's Avatar
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    I find this news disappointing.

    Discussions of "durability" aside and speaking strictly in terms of personal preference I have to say I'm not impressed with the 525.

    In terms of my EDCs, My 1050s (Pilot, Co-Pilot, Ristretto) hold their shape beautifully. But as much as I love my relatively new Nebulous Grey Medium Cafe Bag, it's a bit too "floppy" for my taste -- and I find myself packing extra stuff in it just so it'll maintain its shape!

    I couldn't possibly imagine this "floppier" fabric keeping its shape on my A45 or Western Flyer.

    Also -- the issue of weight. On an EDC like the MCB, you're talking about the equivalent weight savings of maybe a couple packs of gum. I don't see the benefit of sacrificing structure in favor of shaving a couple of ounces off the weight of a bag that's going to have STUFF in it anyway!

    One more point. If it's a matter of cost -- Tom Bihn -- do what you have to do to adjust the prices upward. I'm sure there are plenty of customers like myself who will be gladly choose to pay a few extra bucks for the 1050 option, rather than having that option taken away from us altogether.

  11. #26
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    Interesting. I think I would like a slightly floppier A45. Brand new it's so rigid and unfortunately I don't travel enough to expect it to soften up any time soon. For the Yeoman duffles I don't know that I would want it in the 525 since there's no structure there.

  12. #27
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    I'm on the same page as a bunch of you on here that any downside of switching to the 525 is increased floppiness, not decreased durability. I have a 525 Synapse that looks essentially new after two years of (almost) EDC and a bunch of trips. That's quality material! But there's no doubt that it's a bit bendier than my 1050 bags. The weight savings would be nice on some bags, though.

    My current theory is that this whole thing was a plot to get me to buy an A45 before the 1050 goes away!

    (It worked! A steel-island A45 was just delivered about an hour ago.)

  13. #28
    TOM BIHN Crew (we work here) Darcy's Avatar
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    Thank you for the feedback shared here. It informs us and prevents us from guessing as to what you all want (important, because our guesses could be wrong!) We'll be taking the various experiences and opinions here into consideration, along with noting whether the 525d or 1050d versions of the Aeronauts, Tri-Star, and Western Flyer are more popular as they're being offered side-by-side.

    No promises, but if it becomes clear that people would like 1050d to remain an option, we might have the ability to make something like that happen. I say something like because we'd be working with our mill in South Korea and could work with them to develop a fabric that's customized, more our very own, taking into account what everyone likes best about 1050d. And it too would be bluesign certified

    Cost is seldom a factor in our of choice materials. Here's what did factor in to our decision:

    * Because 525d isn't as stiff and difficult to work with as 1050d, it frees Tom and Nik up in design somewhat. For example, Tom's Trinity travel bags (due 2020, or whenever we get that custom zipper!) could be made with 1050d, but they look and work much nicer in 525d. Oops: some beans spilled there (I think someone asked here what the name of the "Stowaway replacement" is...so, here you go!)

    * We're more able to bring in new colors of 525d. Like Coyote, and perhaps others down the line....

    * As noted in our 525d Materials Glossary entry, the abrasion resistance of our 525d HT ballistic is right in there with the 1050d, testing at over 10,000 cycles on the Taber machine yet 525d weighs about 70% of the weight of 1050d.

    * Our 525d is bluesign® certified (link to our Planet page entry on this; here's an external link to bluesign®) : basically, the chemical and other processes of the mill who makes the fabric for us have been evaluated by bluesign® and certified to confirm a high degree of safety for anyone who handles the material -- whether that's in the mill of origin, our sewing crew, our shipping crew, or anyone who uses our bags. bluesign® certification also ensures a material or product is responsibility produced in regards to the environment. (Worth noting: our 210d HT ballistic nylon is also bluesign® certified, and our 200d Halcyon and 400d Halcyon woven in a bluesign® certified mill and and finished in an OEKO-TEX® certified mill.)

    * We just really like our 525d. Still, it's noted that not *everyone* does, and we respect that. There may be room for some 1050d options in the future; we'll just have to see what's popular and what's worth bringing in.

    (I pulled some of the above from this post.)
    Current Carry: The Hero's Journey, Skookum Dog Citizen Canine, Founder's Briefcase, Synapse 19 (day hikes), Guide's Pack (longer day hikes), Yeoman Duffel (winter/emergency stuff for the car), Aeronaut 30 (travel), Night Flight Travel Duffel (camera bag), Moveable Feast + Shop Bags (food)

  14. #29
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    I originally bought an A30 and A45 in 1050d thinking I wanted/needed more durability or stiffness. I have since bought an Original/Island A30 and I prefer it over the 1050 ballistic for the flexibility/feel in packing and carrying.

    After using / packing a variety of bags over the past two years, I've migrated to the 400d as my preferred exterior, especially for the smaller bags. The bags that I still have in ballistic or cordura is because I love the colour so much or haven't freed up the money to replace them yet.

    I'm one of the folks bummed that we're going down to only one 400d halcyon colour.
    I like all the blues and greys...and all the happy citrus colours too! My search unicorn is the Sapphire Dyneema original Small Shop Bag...

  15. #30
    Forum Member Perseffect's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darcy View Post
    Thank you for the feedback shared here. It informs us and prevents us from guessing as to what you all want
    Thanks Darcy. I really appreciate you listening to these thoughts and preferences around fabric choices.

    As you can tell we are all individuals but with strong preferences. Guess that’s the downside of raving fans of your products!

    Thanks again.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Aeronaut 45 (Navy/NWS), A30 (Black/Island), Tristar (Steel/Island), Western Flyer (Steel/Island), Pilot (Steel/Island), Synapse 25 (Mars Red/NWS), Synapse 19 (Black/Island) & (Burnt Orange/Steel), Ristretto 11 (Navy/Steel), Small Cafe Bag (Navy/Steel) & (Mars Red/Dawn), Daylight Briefcase (Cloud/Dawn), Side Kick (Mars Red/Dawn), Travel Cubelet (Mars Red)

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