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  1. #46
    TOM BIHN Crew (we work here) Darcy's Avatar
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    Anecdotally, and YMMV, but here's a mask-wearing observation: I don't seem to touch my face when I am wearing my mask. When I pull my mask down below my chin or remove it because I'm in my car by myself or at home, I instinctively do so by pulling the ear loops down. On the rare occasion I adjust the mask, I instinctively pinch the fabric, and then I wash or sanitize my hands. But I don't think I touch my actual face while wearing my mask, it'd even be kind of hard to... I mean, I'd have to go out of my way to try to touch my face.
    Have a question? @Darcy (to make sure I see it)

    Current carry: testing new potential materials in the form of Original Large Shop Bags.

  2. #47
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    This is an interesting article that notes that home-made soft-cloth masks actually increased the risk for healthcare workers in one study. I wonder if this is because most home-made masks are made from cotton and cotton tends to absord liquid which causes things to spread out over the surface. Surgical masks usually are made with some type of papery material with a coating, at least from what I remember. N95 masks and N99 masks obviously are entirely different.

    https://vitals.lifehacker.com/do-hom...oro-1842514179

  3. #48
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    Another mask idea, for those of you who have been to Japan and bought tenugui as souvenirs.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gjt3...ature=youtu.be
    A30 in original halcyon/wasabi. Side Kick in verde/northwest sky and cloud/viridian, Pop Tote in Mars Red and Nebulous Grey, Travel Cubelet in Mars Red, Viridian and Grass, A30 packing cube backpack in northwest sky, large travel tray in sitka, packing cubes, pouches and cubelets

  4. #49
    Forum Member GrussGott's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bchaplin View Post
    SARS-CoV-2 can spread through contaminated surfaces, but the main source seems to be sustained proximity to others who are infected, particularly through droplets spread when we cough, talk, or breathe. Up to 25% of all people with SARS-CoV-2 are asymptomatic. Someone without obvious illness can infect you through sustained proximity, and you can spread it to others without being aware you even have the virus.
    Yeah, to add to this, I've gotten interested in "super-spreaders" which seems to invalidate the notion of "R0" (r-naught), i.e., that 1 person spreads to ~2.4 ... While R0 for cv19 might have modeling usefulness at the country level, it's looking more and more like most infected with cv19 only infect ~1 person if that, versus super-spreaders who infect 100s or 1000s. Further, all known SSEs (super spreader events) seem to be in a more confined space (office, church, et al) versus outdoors.

    This makes frequent widespread testing and contract tracing all that more important because it's likely what we're really trying to identify are these super-spreaders and quickly get them quarantined which would let the rest of us get back to globe-trotting with some sweet bags.

    My pure guess is that super-spreaders naturally create dense aerosols more readily than others, thus keeping 6'+ away from people and staying out of places with limited airflow becomes very important. There's also some data indicating that low humidity depletes the mucus lining in your lungs making one more susceptible to nasties so keeping your home 40%-60% may be a best practice.

    As for sources, it's pretty challenging - FWIW, I check everything against the infectious disease specialists Dr Mike Osterholm and Dr Larry Brilliant as they've been studying this stuff for decades. Andy Slavitt's daily twitter update threads on the Threadreader app are also excellent as is his new podcast (Andy's former dir of CMS amongst an armful of credentials).

    BTW, for @autolycus , here's what Dr. Osterholm said about WHO:
    "Many of us were incredibly disappointed for lack of a better word in the WHO and its response ... When you look at what WHO did I think they set us back a great deal because they made countries believe if just a few countries that were going to get this would just do the containment work, we could stop it.

    We couldn’t. Trying to stop this kind of transmission is like trying to stop the wind, so we held back on a preparedness, and gave people excuses not to do it."
    Last edited by GrussGott; 04-01-2020 at 08:23 PM.

  5. #50
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  6. #51
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    @GrussGott yeah, the WHO and CDC, which are generally very effective organizations, have truly let the world down on this one. It's understandable how it happened, but that doesn't really excuse it. There's a very tricky balance with potentially catastrophic events. Push too hard too often, and you lose credibility with the public. We see this frequently with hurricane forecasts in the SE US. But then when you miss the other way, it can be really, really bad. The Boy Who Cried Wolf parable is absolutely useful to this day, isn't it? But in this case, I think authorities had taken the lessen too far.

    On one of your other points: I guess it's good for me in the SE that humidity might be a good thing. At least there's one benefit to living in a high humidity region. On top of the humidity, we're also experiencing record pollen levels, which have gotten my mucus production way up. Gotta take even the small positives right now! Smilie I've had slight nasal drip and a very mild productive cough for weeks now. Temp has been consistently 97.5-98.5.

  7. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by autolycus View Post
    [MENTION=20087]On one of your other points: I guess it's good for me in the SE that humidity might be a good thing. At least there's one benefit to living in a high humidity region. On top of the humidity, we're also experiencing record pollen levels, which have gotten my mucus production way up. Gotta take even the small positives right now! Smilie I've had slight nasal drip and a very mild productive cough for weeks now. Temp has been consistently 97.5-98.5.
    Yup. This is exactly where I'm at (geographically and physically). It's a little awkward to have to insist on work calls "Don't worry, it's a wet cough." Roll Eyes (Sarcastic)

  8. #53
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    This is a free article on the Washington Post: "Which DIY mask pattern should you use? Even experts can’t pick one to recommend."

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/lifes...63d_story.html

  9. #54
    Forum Member GrussGott's Avatar
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    one of the interesting outliers in all of this is Japan - they don't seem to be following any of the standard moves (shelter-in-place, mass testing, quarantine, etc), yet the outbreak seems under control - many people are crediting this to cultural long-term widespread mask use. We'll have to wait to see if this is true but I can say in Oct when I was there probably 50% of people (in Tokyo) we encountered were wearing masks, and I would guess post-january that drastically increased.

    What i'm wondering is if masks blunt SSEs either by preventing aerosol/droplets, protecting against them, or both. If we could get even directional data indicating basic mask (non-n95) efficacy against cv19, especially SSEs, that would be another way to get everyone back to work...

    Make it a new dress code: no mask, no entry!

    boy, thought #2: get some data from a flight where everyone wears masks ... not sure how you'd do this, but if you could show masks protect you during travel that'd be awesome.
    Last edited by GrussGott; 04-02-2020 at 12:37 PM.

  10. #55
    Forum Member haraya's Avatar
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    One of my regular meds gives me a low-level dry cough. I just keep Vitamin C drops whenever I anticipate that I might feel a tickle in my throat, like on a conference call. YMMV.

    Quote Originally Posted by Waterlogged View Post
    Yup. This is exactly where I'm at (geographically and physically). It's a little awkward to have to insist on work calls "Don't worry, it's a wet cough." Roll Eyes (Sarcastic)

  11. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by autolycus View Post
    There’s a rumor on Twitter, not started by a total nobody, that the CDC is considering updating its guidance for the general public. The new guidance would supposedly continue the social distancing stuff but also add wearing masks in public (for grocery shopping and the like), to help slow transmission. If that goes into place, there’s going to be a surge in the market for simple, ideally reusable (and disinfectable) masks.

    In that scenario, I would happily support a “buy one, donate one (or some)” model like Tom’s has for its shoes.
    Absolutely, or even in multiples. We don't want to detract from the effort, but if we can look cool (ok maybe that's relative) while funding masks for people who genuinely need them - it'd be a hit with this cultish bunch.

  12. #57
    TOM BIHN Crew (we work here) Darcy's Avatar
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    See C.D.C. is expected to advise all Americans to wear cloth masks in public (New York Times)

    Given this development, I have gone ahead and created a page that allows anyone to sign up to be notified via email when/if we offer our face masks for purchase by the general public:
    TOM BIHN Face Mask

    I can't, at this point, share when we'd be able to make these masks available for purchase. I can tell you things change here every day: we have, in recent days, made impressive gains in our efficiency and production capacity thanks to improvements we've made to the process by which the masks are made. Our mask would not be the least expensive option out there; it would be priced to cover our basic costs and potentially help us offset some of the expenses we've already incurred (and will continue to incur) making and shipping face masks.

    I've tried to make it clear in the description that we only want people to buy one of our masks if they want to... and I've created a list of DIY mask options for those who don't want to buy a mask. Let me know if you have any suggestions for links I could add to that list.

    Please also see the guidelines the FDA has recommended that I included in the description.
    Have a question? @Darcy (to make sure I see it)

    Current carry: testing new potential materials in the form of Original Large Shop Bags.

  13. #58
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    Hi @Darcy ,

    I think that everyone understands the priorities that you laid out when starting to convert operations to mask production, and the importance of addressing primary target groups who are both involved in health care activities, essential support activities that may place them more at risk (and this can be very broadly construed), or who have to deal with maintaining folks in high risk categories. Then, there are people who are at risk, but who are ill placed to acquire these items for themselves (including people undergoing treatment for other conditions, those who have lost employment or are experiencing even more hardship from current conditions, etc.).

    I think, that some of the forum members and TB customers would also like to get involved with some sort of process where they can buy a mask, with the option of subsidizing costs of making/distributing more masks. It's understood that this is not the least expensive option. It's also true that there will be some people who are interested in this who are not in a position to currently afford this. But, they're also part of our extended community, and this would give us a way to help them, too. So please consider multiple options, consistent with your initial priorities.

    moriond

  14. #59
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    I’d pleased to be a peripheral supporter of TBs effort by purchasing masks if they become available.

  15. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by moriond View Post

    I think, that some of the forum members and TB customers would also like to get involved with some sort of process where they can buy a mask, with the option of subsidizing costs of making/distributing more masks. It's understood that this is not the least expensive option. It's also true that there will be some people who are interested in this who are not in a position to currently afford this. But, they're also part of our extended community, and this would give us a way to help them, too. So please consider multiple options, consistent with your initial priorities.

    moriond

    YES


    @Darcy , If you do get to the point of offering masks up for sale (and even if you don't) please include options to donate money per mask and/or just flat donations to subsidize masks for others.
    Last edited by G42; 04-02-2020 at 07:29 PM.
    I like all the blues and greys...and all the happy citrus colours too! My search unicorn is the Sapphire Dyneema original Small Shop Bag...

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