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  1. #31
    Forum Member Chicagoan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by theswiftbiker View Post
    I'm going to veer off topic, my apologies. Less about materials and the lifetime guarantee, I've been feeling that there has been so many new designs in limited runs that it's difficult to decide if it's right for you and to get your hands on it. There is so much hype about new designs and only having one or two chances to get it makes it difficult. It's a little anxiety inducing trying to get that new color or new design around release day, where it could be gone forever and not made again. Things selling out just minutes after going live. The more limited items that come along, the less interested I am in trying to acquire them.

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    +1 to this.

    I wonít be participating in the debut day sales of the Shadow Guide 33 and 23.

    Today I have a backup Luminary 15 coming in the mail to me and that might be the last bag I buy for awhile.

    I just donít care to get my hopes up in anticipation for weeks only to have them crushed within 90 seconds of an item becoming available for sale.


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  2. #32
    TOM BIHN Crew (we work here) Darcy's Avatar
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    Okay, hereís what weíve learned thanks to your feedback: many of you would like the chance to try different materials while many of you arenít interested in that. Thatís all okay, we think, because weíre offering options for everyone: weíll of course continue to offer what we offer now and some new stuff here and there for those whoíd like to try it out.

    And for those of you who are interested in trying bags in some new materials ó weíll make sure to carefully and thoughtfully (and, you know us, very lengthily) explain the pros and cons of each material, any extra care that may be necessary to aid its longevity, and generally what you can expect in terms of looks, graceful aging and length of life. And, again, you know us: we thoroughly test materials (sometimes for years) before theyíre offered to you. Thatís not going to change.

    Our Lifetime Guarantee has not changed; any bags in new materials that we offer would be covered by our same Lifetime Guarantee, which covers defects in materials and workmanship for the life of a bag. Note that our Lifetime Guarantee does not now, nor ever has, covered normal wear and tear: what weíre talking about here is that some of these new materials might show that ďwear and tearĒ noticeably early than the Łber-durable materials we currently and more typically utilize. So weíd also make sure to say something on the product page like: ďNatural, undyed hemp is a beautiful fabric and quite durable; please note that we canít be responsible for beet stains, a takeout container gone wrong, or your pup chewing a hole in the bag after the takeout container gone wrong incident leaves some enchilada sauce in the bottom of the bag, but weíd be glad to repair/patch up your bag for a very reasonable charge as long as we get a photo of the responsible pup.Ē I mean, the same is true for any of our other bags really. Itís just that natural, undyed hemp may show a stain more easily, and while thatís probably obvious, weíd point that out. (Iím just using hemp as an example; there arenít any hemp bags in the works!)

    Not to take some of the excitement away, but we donít really have plans to release tons of new stuff in new materials or anything and Iím sorry if my post implied that. There will potentially be a Design Lab take on the Packing Cube Shoulder Bag thatíll be offered in a very nice ripstop material weíve been testing for over six months now ó no real caveats with that material, as based on our considerable testing we expect it to perform quite similarly to our 210d ballistic. Itís a version of the PCSB that goes back to the old strap attachment style ó a lot of the time, our new designs and materials offerings are intended to answer the design challenges or requests you guys share with us! Smilie
    Have a question? @Darcy (to make sure I see it)

    Current carry: testing new potential materials in the form of Original Large Shop Bags.

  3. #33
    Forum Member b1gsky's Avatar
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    @Darcy Love that you’re offering the Design Lab PCSBs with the old attachment points!! Any hints what colors might be available in that new fabric?

  4. #34
    Forum Member marbenais's Avatar
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    I agree that the older materials have a longevity that I havenít experienced with the 525 ballistic - as much as I dislike the fur-magnetic part of Cordura, Iíve washed my Imago probably a dozen times and used it very hard and it doesnít show any wear except on the plastic buckles. 1050 ballistic is only destructible by Rosalind the very determined Puggle pictured below, if thereís food in a closed bag.



    For Halcyon (well, actually it was Dyneema at the time of purchase) for exterior fabrics, Iíve accepted the lightweight bag in exchange for less resistance to wear-and-tear. Itís a fair trade off for me because the bags are very packable and light. I donít get it for the same use as a bag for which I would select 1050.

    However, as much as I love the feel of the 525 and colors of it, it hasnít had even the wear of the 200 Halcyon in my experience. Hard objects on the inside of bags form marks on the outside (water bottles, Kindle in the Side Effect or Side Kick, laptop without a soft case, etc) after just a few uses, with any color, and abrasive surfaces scuff up and make fuzzy the outsides of bags (concrete, unfinished wood, brick - which didnít affect even Cordura at all).

    I would hesitate to purchase a bag with a exterior fabric even less structured than the 525. I completely understand the production and logistics behind limiting fabric offerings of a bag to one type, but I really wish I could get 1050 options for just a few more bags. I love the idea of experimenting with new fabrics but not at the expense of the older, mainstay, durable ones.

  5. #35
    Forum Member Perseffect's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marbenais View Post
    I agree that the older materials have a longevity that I havenít experienced with the 525 ballistic - as much as I dislike the fur-magnetic part of Cordura, Iíve washed my Imago probably a dozen times and used it very hard and it doesnít show any wear except on the plastic buckles. 1050 ballistic is only destructible by Rosalind the very determined Puggle pictured below, if thereís food in a closed bag.



    For Halcyon (well, actually it was Dyneema at the time of purchase) for exterior fabrics, Iíve accepted the lightweight bag in exchange for less resistance to wear-and-tear. Itís a fair trade off for me because the bags are very packable and light. I donít get it for the same use as a bag for which I would select 1050.

    However, as much as I love the feel of the 525 and colors of it, it hasnít had even the wear of the 200 Halcyon in my experience. Hard objects on the inside of bags form marks on the outside (water bottles, Kindle in the Side Effect or Side Kick, laptop without a soft case, etc) after just a few uses, with any color, and abrasive surfaces scuff up and make fuzzy the outsides of bags (concrete, unfinished wood, brick - which didnít affect even Cordura at all).

    I would hesitate to purchase a bag with a exterior fabric even less structured than the 525. I completely understand the production and logistics behind limiting fabric offerings of a bag to one type, but I really wish I could get 1050 options for just a few more bags. I love the idea of experimenting with new fabrics but not at the expense of the older, mainstay, durable ones.
    This is my experience too with 525. Would gladly see this replaced with something more durable (from an easily marked point of view). Such a shame as I love 1050 and hoped it would just be a more flexible version of that.


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  6. #36
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    I have to toss my two cents worth in here (currently on sale for a penny).

    I bought a bunch of LL Bean over the years and used their warranty exactly once - when a zipper broke due to what was undoubtedly a manufacturer's defect. I've also worn out a lot of Bean stuff and tossed it because - like you said - nothing lasts forever.

    However, the day that LL Bean dumped their warranty was the day that I tossed their catalogs, blocked their emails and vowed never to buy from them again.

    Why? Because if that warranty worked for the 40 years that I was buying from them, it can only mean that they are saying "we don't believe in our products any longer."

    The same holds true for companies like Tumi.

    My take is that TB should experiment with new fabrics, but you need to create a new line to clearly differentiate the products without that warranty - and the tag inside should say the same.
    When in trouble, obfuscate.

  7. #37
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    I buy TB products because I expect them to be practically bulletproof.

    If you want to experiment with other more delicate materials, can you do it under a different brand name? That way it's obvious which guarantee goes with which products. Sort of like the Skookum dog line?

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by ceb View Post
    the day that LL Bean dumped their warranty was the day that I tossed their catalogs, blocked their emails and vowed never to buy from them again
    LL Bean (as well as REI, etc.) were forced to change their warranty policies because people were badly abusing them - sending back things they picked up at yard sales or thrift stores for replacement with new items, ordering a bunch of gear for a camping trip and returning it all when they got back home, etc. - I'm quite sure they would still do the right thing for an honest customer with a truly defective product.
    Last edited by woppinger; 11-08-2020 at 11:02 PM.

  9. #39
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    I don't think I would be interested in products with a different warranty and don't really need different fabrics. I buy Tom Bihn bags because they won't ever let me down.

  10. #40
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    Iím in favor of new materials and do not see this as a change in the warranty, Iím reading this thread with the clarifications to the original post.

    I see it as a lifetime warranty against defects in material or manufacturing, waxed canvass fading with time is not a defect in material; jeans also fade with time and in sunlight, quality leather (or metal) develops a patina of scratches, discoloration, etc, over time and that adds character to my mind and shows that the material is natural. And ultralight fabric sometimes tears over time. Itís not a defect.

    Anyway, thatís my vote. I also donít see different materials as necessarily a decrease in quality, Iím thinking linen compared to cotton or stainless steel compared to cast iron pans.

  11. #41
    TOM BIHN Crew (we work here) Darcy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hdavim View Post
    Iím in favor of new materials and do not see this as a change in the warranty, Iím reading this thread with the clarifications to the original post.

    I see it as a lifetime warranty against defects in material or manufacturing, waxed canvass fading with time is not a defect in material; jeans also fade with time and in sunlight, quality leather (or metal) develops a patina of scratches, discoloration, etc, over time and that adds character to my mind and shows that the material is natural. And ultralight fabric sometimes tears over time. Itís not a defect.

    Anyway, thatís my vote. I also donít see different materials as necessarily a decrease in quality, Iím thinking linen compared to cotton or stainless steel compared to cast iron pans.
    That's pretty much how we see it too Smilie And better put than my original pre-clarifications post!
    Have a question? @Darcy (to make sure I see it)

    Current carry: testing new potential materials in the form of Original Large Shop Bags.

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