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  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by crossedbooker View Post
    Years ago I sold books on ebay. For about five years it helped supplement my income, and I made a decent amount of sales (and feedback). Then, around 2009, ebay drastically changed their rules for paypal disputes and essentially all the buyer had to do was complain about any aspect of the transaction and their money was refunded. I sold a rare book for $300, and lo and behold the buyer had buyer's remorse about a week after receiving it. My description was accurate, item was well packed and arrived two days after payment. But I lost the dispute and the buyer refused to send back the book. Meanwhile my Paypal balance went negative and I refused to authorize a payment to them. I still had to pay my ebay fees and my paypal fees, plus the cost of shipping...So I let them take me to collections, but I fought the collection agency. And I won.

    Unfortunately, though I won my paypal account was forcibly closed, and I had to stop selling on ebay. While the financial hit was hard, the headache of dealing with the new rules (that constantly change to benefit the buyer) really wasn't worth it. I miss the old ebay where it featured little sellers instead of massive operations selling goods from China for pennies and was a fair deal. Paypal is a nightmare too if you ever have to deal with their customer service...
    Wow that's a mess. If it comes down to it, I'll just take a loss on this, but out of principle this is just complete bs. It's their word against ours and eBay (it seems) will side with them before us.

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  2. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by nolegrl View Post
    Wow that's a mess. If it comes down to it, I'll just take a loss on this, but out of principle this is just complete bs. It's their word against ours and eBay (it seems) will side with them before us.

    Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk
    It really is a pile of bs. And ebay will almost always side with the buyer. It's always amazed me because without sellers to sell stuff there wouldn't be buyers and transactions and fees.
    One piece of advice for those that choose to fight Paypal and a collection agency: Do it legitimately through paperwork and the law, and you will win. Unlike the cluster**** that is Paypal's regulations, the law has stringent rules without a strong bias based on profit.
    Good luck, and I'm sorry for this craptastic situation.
    Aubergine/steel MB, Aubergine/wasabi pilot , Aubergine/island SE, Aubergine/NWS Lswift, Black/fjord Sswift, Alphaviolet/NWS S25, Alphaviolet/viridian SK, Black/UV S19...and buying more! Aubergine and Alphaviolet lover!!!

  3. #18
    Forum Member Perseffect's Avatar
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    Iím a U.K. eBay seller (and buyer). Granted, most sales go fine but a few donít. And eBay always sides with the buyer. These infrequent sales are really unfair to honest sellers and put you out of pocket.

    I do keep going back to eBay to list items but Iím ready to find another option. We donít really have craigslist here in the U.K. but a platform called Gumtree seems to work.

    However, if posting and using PayPal for payments, you still have to be careful that they donít make a PayPal claim (who again side more often with buyers). Ive asked buyers to send money as a friend/family option rather than as a purchase to avoid PayPalís buyer protection.

    This may seem a bit unfair to the buyer, but Iím not a business. Iím a personal seller of my personal items. I list honestly and donít want to be taken advantage of by eBay or PayPalís buyer biased agenda.


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    Aeronaut 45 (Navy/NWS), A30 (Black/Island), Tristar (Steel/Island), Western Flyer (Steel/Island), Pilot (Steel/Island), Synapse 25 (Mars Red/NWS), Synapse 19 (Black/Island) & (Burnt Orange/Steel), Ristretto 11 (Navy/Steel), Small Cafe Bag (Navy/Steel) & (Mars Red/Dawn), Daylight Briefcase (Cloud/Dawn), Side Kick (Mars Red/Dawn), Travel Cubelet (Mars Red)

  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Perseffect View Post
    Iím a U.K. eBay seller (and buyer). Granted, most sales go fine but a few donít. And eBay always sides with the buyer. These infrequent sales are really unfair to honest sellers and put you out of pocket.

    I do keep going back to eBay to list items but Iím ready to find another option. We donít really have craigslist here in the U.K. but a platform called Gumtree seems to work.

    However, if posting and using PayPal for payments, you still have to be careful that they donít make a PayPal claim (who again side more often with buyers). Ive asked buyers to send money as a friend/family option rather than as a purchase to avoid PayPalís buyer protection.

    This may seem a bit unfair to the buyer, but Iím not a business. Iím a personal seller of my personal items. I list honestly and donít want to be taken advantage of by eBay or PayPalís buyer biased agenda.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Thanks! It sounds like eBay will refund them as long as they provide a police report, so if they comply, they'll get their money (and a free backpack) and I won't need to deal with PayPal. If they don't comply and go to PayPal, I'd be really surprised if they allow a refund.

    I see your point about requesting the "friends and family" payment, but I feel like that might get you banned from eBay selling at some point. I'm not sure if it's against their rules to request a different payment type. Also, buyers risk purchasing on eBay because they have protection. A seller can scam a buyer just as easily and as a buyer, I feel better making a purchase knowing I have protection.

    Unfortunately, then you get the people like this buyer who take advantage of it. It's crummy when they do it to corporations, but extra crummy when they do it to individual sellers. eBay treats us like a corporate business and we aren't. We don't have endless stock and funds, we're cleaning out our closets and selling what we find. There really needs to be better seller protection for individuals.

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  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Perseffect View Post
    Iím a U.K. eBay seller (and buyer). Granted, most sales go fine but a few donít. And eBay always sides with the buyer. These infrequent sales are really unfair to honest sellers and put you out of pocket.

    I do keep going back to eBay to list items but Iím ready to find another option. We donít really have craigslist here in the U.K. but a platform called Gumtree seems to work.

    However, if posting and using PayPal for payments, you still have to be careful that they donít make a PayPal claim (who again side more often with buyers). Ive asked buyers to send money as a friend/family option rather than as a purchase to avoid PayPalís buyer protection.

    This may seem a bit unfair to the buyer, but Iím not a business. Iím a personal seller of my personal items. I list honestly and donít want to be taken advantage of by eBay or PayPalís buyer biased agenda.


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    I've never thought to check Gumtree, have you found other TB stuff there for sale?

  6. #21
    Forum Member Perseffect's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cristina View Post
    I've never thought to check Gumtree, have you found other TB stuff there for sale?
    Iíve seen the odd one or two things on Gumtree (although nowhere near as many as on eBay). Iím selling a few bits on eBay now but almost ready to pull the listings and put it all on Gumtree.

    Also Iím going to start using the forum trade feature here to advertise/highlight the gumtree listings. Just so fed up with eBay.


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    Aeronaut 45 (Navy/NWS), A30 (Black/Island), Tristar (Steel/Island), Western Flyer (Steel/Island), Pilot (Steel/Island), Synapse 25 (Mars Red/NWS), Synapse 19 (Black/Island) & (Burnt Orange/Steel), Ristretto 11 (Navy/Steel), Small Cafe Bag (Navy/Steel) & (Mars Red/Dawn), Daylight Briefcase (Cloud/Dawn), Side Kick (Mars Red/Dawn), Travel Cubelet (Mars Red)

  7. #22
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    It's finally over! eBay released the hold on my money and closed the case today, I'm guessing the buyer never filed a police report.

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  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by nolegrl View Post
    It's finally over! eBay released the hold on my money and closed the case today, I'm guessing the buyer never filed a police report.

    Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

    Yay! So glad that worked out for you.

  9. #24
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    Sorry for reopening an old thread, but this thread seemed most relevant and the latest post discussing eBay's buyer and seller relations. I am asking from a buyer's perspective and here in the forum because most seem to have a good moral compass seeing both sides of things. The listing involves a Tom Bihn item from a smaller seller so I guess it is 50-50 chance they are/have been on forum so I assume they are a nice person too.

    Situation as brief as I can. I haven't bought on Ebay for 15 years or so. I looked over listings for Tom Bihn items. Couple caught my attention that I wouldn't buy at new price, but used price I decided to place a bid. Won auction on 3 items. Two were wonderful and came as listed. The third item not as described:

    Listed: Nebulous grey ballistic/cloud brain bag, all zipper functions, some parts may be missing. No returns.

    What I thought I was buying: Nebulous grey = maximum 1 year old, newest design= parts would be available to replace. Won at 80+20 shipping so good price it seemed

    What I got: Gray cordura BB (Steel like, but I don't know gray cordura iterations, cordura retired so bag is 2+ years old). Missing triangle water bottle clasp. Look under top little pocket and the loop for the triangle clasp doesn't exist. (internet search puts guess at 8+ years old). Bag condition satisfactory otherwise.

    Contacted buyer. Buyer responds quickly. They bought it off ebay and it wasn't specific in the original listing on material. They offered to take return, refund purchase price, shipping, and return shipping. OR issue credit of $20.

    Question is 'what is fair to all?' I could be a normal consumer just make the return and be done. My morals follow other points this thread brought up about selling. If I returned the item, this small seller will end up paying $40 in shipping for an $80 item that re-listed may bring (much) less. I could take the $20 credit and have a BB with cordura I don't like and try to trade it away for a like price item thus saving the seller $20 over physical return cost (refund $ vs both 20 shipping +20 return shipping). It's like the shipping companies are the only winners here.

    I am probably overthinking this, but being a TB item the morals seem to matter to me.

  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by organicfarmer View Post
    Sorry for reopening an old thread, but this thread seemed most relevant and the latest post discussing eBay's buyer and seller relations. I am asking from a buyer's perspective and here in the forum because most seem to have a good moral compass seeing both sides of things. The listing involves a Tom Bihn item from a smaller seller so I guess it is 50-50 chance they are/have been on forum so I assume they are a nice person too.

    Situation as brief as I can. I haven't bought on Ebay for 15 years or so. I looked over listings for Tom Bihn items. Couple caught my attention that I wouldn't buy at new price, but used price I decided to place a bid. Won auction on 3 items. Two were wonderful and came as listed. The third item not as described:

    Listed: Nebulous grey ballistic/cloud brain bag, all zipper functions, some parts may be missing. No returns.

    What I thought I was buying: Nebulous grey = maximum 1 year old, newest design= parts would be available to replace. Won at 80+20 shipping so good price it seemed

    What I got: Gray cordura BB (Steel like, but I don't know gray cordura iterations, cordura retired so bag is 2+ years old). Missing triangle water bottle clasp. Look under top little pocket and the loop for the triangle clasp doesn't exist. (internet search puts guess at 8+ years old). Bag condition satisfactory otherwise.

    Contacted buyer. Buyer responds quickly. They bought it off ebay and it wasn't specific in the original listing on material. They offered to take return, refund purchase price, shipping, and return shipping. OR issue credit of $20.

    Question is 'what is fair to all?' I could be a normal consumer just make the return and be done. My morals follow other points this thread brought up about selling. If I returned the item, this small seller will end up paying $40 in shipping for an $80 item that re-listed may bring (much) less. I could take the $20 credit and have a BB with cordura I don't like and try to trade it away for a like price item thus saving the seller $20 over physical return cost (refund $ vs both 20 shipping +20 return shipping). It's like the shipping companies are the only winners here.

    I am probably overthinking this, but being a TB item the morals seem to matter to me.
    No worries, eBay is a constant stream of issues. I would go with the return. They misrepresented their item, that's on them. It's possible they didn't know what they were selling and just went with what was current on the TB site. They probably knew this and was hoping the buyer wasn't as familiar with TB products and you caught them. I wouldn't feel bad about returning, especially if it's offered.

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  11. #26
    Forum Member bchaplin's Avatar
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    I don't use eBay or even PayPal any more if I can help it. For casual sales I just ask people to snail mail me a check. It's not that I'm a Luddite, as I take advantage of credit card points, mobile deposit, and electronic bill pay through my bank, for example. I just don't like the way those two companies operate
    ----
    All tyranny needs to gain a foothold is for people of good conscience to remain silent.
    Edmund Burke

  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by nolegrl View Post
    I would go with the return. They misrepresented their item, that's on them. It's possible they didn't know what they were selling and just went with what was current on the TB site. They probably knew this and was hoping the buyer wasn't as familiar with TB products and you caught them. I wouldn't feel bad about returning, especially if it's offered.
    Agreed! If the item isn't as advertised -- and the seller has offered to do the responsible thing and take it back -- take him/her up on it. Life is too short to keep a bag you don't want!
    Last edited by bb93fo57; 10-12-2019 at 05:49 AM.

  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by nolegrl View Post
    I wouldn't feel bad about returning, especially if it's offered.
    I will be returning it. I did overthink and in this big internet world just need to look out for myself because no one else is. Ebay lesson learned. Thanks for the replies.

  14. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by organicfarmer View Post
    I will be returning it. I did overthink and in this big internet world just need to look out for myself because no one else is. Ebay lesson learned. Thanks for the replies.

    Given that they offered the return, I would give them the benefit of the doubt and assume that they didn't remember/know what the actual colour name or fabric was. Not everyone who has a TB bag is part of this happily obsessive community in the Forums

    FWIW, my experience has been that if you scan the listings frequently, you'll see that it happens a lot... colour names that never existed when the bag was discontinued are used, I think because they just pick the closest looking color they see on the TB site.
    The other thing I've noticed (having sold some stuff on eBay myself) is that if you use the 'suggested' posting type of system, it will fill-in info from a similar listing, even if it has wrong information and I don't think everyone catches it...

    eBay is definitely buyer-beware, but all of my TB transactions except one have had the item match the description. On the one item that didn't, even though they didn't offer returns, I had the photos to prove that it was wrong. They issued a refund and took back the bag (a black/solar Smart Alec, so that was a bummer - the Solar was horribly stained)...
    I've emailed sellers to tell them about big errors and all of them (so far at least) have immediately corrected their listings, so that's nice.
    If I have any doubt about a listing, I email and ask...if they don't answer or are weird about it, I just pass it by.

    I'm glad you're returning the bag since it's not the one you want...hopefully a BB that suits you will pop up soon
    Last edited by G42; 10-12-2019 at 10:18 AM. Reason: I live for typos!
    I like all the blues and greys...and all the happy citrus colours too! My search unicorn is the Sapphire Dyneema original Small Shop Bag...

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