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  1. #61
    Forum Member K9TB's Avatar
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    When making decisions let's consider 2 guideposts:

    Multiple Medical Experts: FLATTEN THE CURVE

    Tom Bihn Second Aid Pouch: The life you save may not be your own.
    What's better than o-rings? More o-rings.

  2. #62
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    Rick Steves 21-day Best of Europe tour coming up in October 2020. I'm planning and hoping that this worldwide freakout has b down over or become a reasonable risk in which case I could have the whole continent all to myself.

  3. #63
    Forum Member GrussGott's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bchaplin View Post
    I agree with b1gsky. There are worldwide shortages of N95 masks.
    I completely agree with you that nobody should be hoarding new masks of any sort (or TP or groceries or anything for that matter)!

    That said, I understand "N95+ mask" might seem purely medical to many, so just pointing out that there are lots and lots of people who already have and use personal N95+ masks every day (and it wouldn't be sanitary for them to give them away):

    * Construction workers,
    * Machine shops and/or any factory worker where there's dust
    * Anybody doing dusty home projects,
    * Outdoors people in dusty / sandy regions,
    * Lumberjacks,
    * Hunters,
    * People with allergies (dust, pollen, etc),
    * Volunteer firefighters,
    * Athletes (including amater and hobbyists),
    * People in California who fire-prep (basically everybody I know locally -- there were 2 fires next to 280 yesterday alone!)
    * Hikers (my wife and I use ours every week throughout the summer for dust, as do most people we see)
    * and many others - in fact many people have permanent, washable masks with replaceable filters

    I've had a few N100 masks laying around for at least 20 years and my local Home Depot here in San Jose has both 3M and Milwaukee brand N100s in stock right now.

    So my point is, for people that already have and use N95+ masks/respirators - they should wear them now when they go out - and we shouldn't shame them or make it seem awkward or weird. It's for our and their protection and it helps limit a run on our medical treatment capacity.

    And, to your point, we also shouldn't be running to the local hardware store and hoarding them either.
    Last edited by GrussGott; 03-14-2020 at 06:14 PM.

  4. #64
    Forum Member b1gsky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GrussGott View Post
    I completely agree with you that nobody should be hoarding new masks of any sort (or TP or groceries or anything for that matter)!

    That said, I understand "N95+ mask" might seem purely medical to many, so just pointing out that there are lots and lots of people who already have and use personal N95+ masks every day (and it wouldn't be sanitary for them to give away.
    Of course people who already have them should use them, there’s no question about that. But, I don’t think you can compare California with everyone else. We don’t have big fires in Germany, if something happens it’s storms or flooding. Even our hottest summers so far haven’t been so dusty that wearing a mask would have been necessary. Hikers, athletes or other people just don’t have a need for masks. I have a lot of people with allergies in my family and they don’t wear face masks. Home renovators do, but they usually don’t wear N95+ masks that would be helpful now. So that leaves construction workers and workers in specialized jobs... Here in Germany the majority of everyday people didn’t have masks at home before the news hit.

  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by b1gsky View Post
    Of course people who already have them should use them, there’s no question about that. But, I don’t think you can compare California with everyone else. We don’t have big fires in Germany, if something happens it’s storms or flooding. Even our hottest summers so far haven’t been so dusty that wearing a mask would have been necessary. Hikers, athletes or other people just don’t have a need for masks. I have a lot of people with allergies in my family and they don’t wear face masks. Home renovators do, but they usually don’t wear N95+ masks that would be helpful now. So that leaves construction workers and workers in specialized jobs... Here in Germany the majority of everyday people didn’t have masks at home before the news hit.
    Same in Georgia. I’ve never seen someone hiking or walking outside with a mask in Georgia or anywhere in TN and NC (Smokies and Blue Ridge areas). The only people who would have N95 masks around here are _some_ construction workers—mostly those who do demolition work or asbestos or mold remediation—maybe some painters, carpenters should (although I suspect most do not) and some people in a few other specific trades.

    Home Depot around here looks completely out of stock for shipment and in store. Clearly there was a run since the outbreak. I hope it was people who purchased responsibly and not hoarders. Given the national supply is only enough to last health workers a couple weeks, I also hope supply and distribution started ramping up weeks ago.

    I did already see one terrible news story about masks: Delta had ordered 500k masks to distribute to flight and service crews and half of them were stolen from a supply truck before they got to Delta’s warehouse.

  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by autolycus View Post
    Same in Georgia. I’ve never seen someone hiking or walking outside with a mask in Georgia or anywhere in TN and NC (Smokies and Blue Ridge areas). The only people who would have N95 masks around here are _some_ construction workers—mostly those who do demolition work or asbestos or mold remediation—maybe some painters, carpenters should (although I suspect most do not) and some people in a few other specific trades.

    Home Depot around here looks completely out of stock for shipment and in store. Clearly there was a run since the outbreak. I hope it was people who purchased responsibly and not hoarders. Given the national supply is only enough to last health workers a couple weeks, I also hope supply and distribution started ramping up weeks ago.

    I did already see one terrible news story about masks: Delta had ordered 500k masks to distribute to flight and service crews and half of them were stolen from a supply truck before they got to Delta’s warehouse.
    Anybody..who tries to make a quick buck at such a time, needs to be firmly dealt with by authorities. Like the guy hoarding 17,000 bottles of handsanitizer...pathetic

  7. #67
    Forum Member xyppy's Avatar
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    So...since this thread is about covid-19 and masks as much as it is about going to Europe, what do you all think about homemade masks? If this is considered a thread hijack, I apologize.

    As part of my de-stressing, this weekend I took my sewing machine out along with scraps of fabric and after several pattern iterations came up with a pattern that fits comfortably and snug against my face. It's lined with quilt batting so there are three layers. and is attached behind the head with 2 bands of 1/4" elastic. I made 6 of them and after making a few I got it down so I could make one in about 35 minutes. With all the spare time, fabric and elastic I have, I could make probably a dozen a week without making me feel too stressed. (I'm also going to be working from home.) Think I should go for it? I'd probably give them to my neighbors. But I don't want to make them and give them away if they might cause more harm than good.
    Cancel or go to Europe in April-snapseed-mask-jpg
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  8. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by xyppy View Post
    Think I should go for it? I'd probably give them to my neighbors. But I don't want to make them and give them away if they might cause more harm than good.
    Yeah for sewing as a good destressing measure!

    I am in no way an expert or in the medical profession, but a quick google search turned up several references indicating that regular fabrics don't do much to stop the particle size of viruses.

    https://academic.oup.com/annweh/article/54/7/789/202744

    Perhaps you could work on scrappy quilts for eventual donation to shelters or hospices...? You'd still get to make something, keep busy, and know that it will help someone. Smilie
    I like all the blues and greys...and all the happy citrus colours too! My search unicorn is the Sapphire Dyneema original Small Shop Bag...

  9. #69
    Forum Member bchaplin's Avatar
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    Though I am not an infectious disease expert, from what I've read and learned, this type of mask will not really protect you against a virus like COVID-19, but it might (in the same way as a loose-fitting surgical mask) prevent you from transmitting the virus to others through coughing or sneezing, if you are unknowingly carrying it. In fact, surgeons wear surgical masks not to protect them, but to prevent them from passing germs to the patient.

    The biggest risk of infection when you are out in public is touching your own face -- nose, lips or eyes -- with your hands. (Assuming that people are not coughing directly at you, that is.) We do this all the time. For me, it's been a real struggle to retrain myself.

    So will the mask prevent you from touching your face for the entire time you are out and about, or will you reach up to adjust it, or remove it and replace it for eating or talking to people? Think about your personal habits, how well this home-made mask fits, and what your tolerance is for wearing it, without adjustment, for an extended period of time.

    That's my two cents. And again, I'm not a doctor, a PhD, or a medical professional.
    ----
    All tyranny needs to gain a foothold is for people of good conscience to remain silent.
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  10. #70
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    As stated previously, this mask will not protect you from the airborne virus. What it might do is stop you from touching your nose and mouth helping to prevent you from transferring the virus from your hands to two of the openings in your body where you could then have the illness.

    Sent from my SM-T713 using Tapatalk
    Editor--One Bag, One World: News, Reviews & Community for Light Travelers. http://www.1bag1world.com

    Aeronaut(2), Tri-Star(2) Cadet , Large Cafe Bag, Travel Tray, Travel Money Belt, Absolute Straps(3), Side Effect, Clear Quarter Packing Cubes (2), 3D Organizer Cubes (4), Aeronaut & Tri-Star Packing Cubes, Clear Organizer Wallet, numerous Organizer Pouches,, Guardian Dual Function Light, Vertical Netbook Cache, Nexus 7 Cache, RFID Passport Pouch, numerous Key Straps.

  11. #71
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    Flying to Charleston this weekend for a family commitment I noticed airports make me itch! Especially my nose. Since I'm paying more attention to how much I touch my face, it was wild how itchy I was the whole trip south! I thought maybe it was allergies, so I got some Flonase because that works well for me, and I had no more problems until I got back to the airport. I used the Flonase this morning, but still SO ITCHY!

    My trip is just domestic, but I still considered canceling. Instead, I'm exercising an abundance of caution, following the CDC guidelines and leaving the masks for the health professionals, using hand sanitizer if I can't wash my hands, and wiping my seatbelt buckle/arm rest/pocket etc with an alcohol based wipe when I get on the plane.

    I read that some airlines are giving out wipes for people to use, but I'm the only person I've seen actively wiping down surfaces around my seat.

    Posting this while delayed in Charlotte for two hours. Ugh.

    I have a flight booked to the UK in June. Gonna have to wait and see if that happens.

    Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk

  12. #72
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    This just out. France is closing all bars and restaurants. The only place you can get food is room service at your hotel.

  13. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by travelman View Post
    This just out. France is closing all bars and restaurants. The only place you can get food is room service at your hotel.
    Have you been to any of the local grocery stores? I wonder how the compare to the ones in US right now, which are constantly restocking empty shelves.

  14. #74
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    I flew to and from Chicago O'hare last week, and the airline had a cleaning crew go through the planes with a huge bag of various disinfectants. So the airlines are trying. Planes may be safer than other modes of mass transport, but I still would prefer not to go anywhere.

    I think the recent trend of stores limiting hours and restocking mostly during the evening makes sense. People are hoarding crazy amounts of goods, which creates a potential waste problem later. I'm guessing a high percentage of food that was purchased spoils and gets thrown out over time.

  15. #75
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    A homemade mask like that won't protect you, but it is certainly useful to protect others. To that effect, everyone wearing masks of any type would be a good thing, especially considering the asymptomatic spread.

    Limiting hours is ridiculous; forcing the same people into fewer hours just increases congestion and the likelihood of spread. People are just hoarding because they're afraid they won't be able to go back for more when they need it, gradually limiting hours just makes that worse.

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