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  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cristina View Post
    Thanks! I only recently found other companies who use Dyneema X or whatever other names there are for it. I am not interested in the rival bags but I did find that some, like Mountain Laurel Designs, make pouches that would complement my Halcyon TB bags. MLD and ULA (thanks for that!) make Dyneema pouches that go on the shoulder strap of a backpack. I am always looking for little ways to add to my S25! (Though of course I would prefer matching TB black Halcyon pouches)
    @Cristina, I have also used Gossamer Gear accessories like add on pouches with good success in the ultralight category, though I do love my ULA circuit for lightweight backpacking. Gossamer Gear used to have black hipbelt pockets that coordinated fairly well to fit on a HsJ belt: https://www.gossamergear.com/collect...hipbelt-pocket
    "Do one thing every day that scares you." - Eleanor Roosevelt
    "Life moves pretty fast. If you don't stop and look around once in a while, you could miss it." -Ferris Bueller

  2. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by NWhikergal View Post
    @Cristina, I have also used Gossamer Gear accessories like add on pouches with good success in the ultralight category, though I do love my ULA circuit for lightweight backpacking. Gossamer Gear used to have black hipbelt pockets that coordinated fairly well to fit on a HsJ belt: https://www.gossamergear.com/collect...hipbelt-pocket
    Thank you very much! I may end up going with this and a matching shoulder pouch so I don't have clashing grid patterns.

  3. #18
    Forum Member bouncing's Avatar
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    As an Aeronaut 30 owner, I just thought I'd throw out there that OMO also, it's a duffel first and a backpack second, including the straps. I've certainly had better straps on cheaper backpacks, but to me, the beauty of the Aeronaut is in how it works as a duffel.

  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by bouncing View Post
    As an Aeronaut 30 owner, I just thought I'd throw out there that OMO also, it's a duffel first and a backpack second, including the straps. I've certainly had better straps on cheaper backpacks, but to me, the beauty of the Aeronaut is in how it works as a duffel.
    I think the Aeronaut shoulder straps are great on the Aeronaut, given that, as you said, it's probably 95%+ supposed to be used as a duffle. Unfortunately they use those same bare bones shoulder straps on a pack that's about twice the size of the Aeronaut 30, almost twice the price, and is designed to be in backpack mode 95%.

    The decision to not use upgraded shoulder straps or include a center channel on the back padding for ventilation purposes is still befuddling to me. It's like they made a backpack without looking doing any market research on competing packs to see what people like in a bigger pack.

  5. #20
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    Tom Bihn Hero's Journey has been terribly disappointing...-mvimg_20171220_183225-jpg

    For another view of the shortcomings of the straps, note the "after" pic from two trips. I've never had more than about 35 pounds in the pack, and due to the thinness of the straps and the lack of elasticity, the straps kink rather than wrap around your shoulders. Rest assured, I know very well how to wear a pack. This is a product issue, not user error...

    The straps on this are definitely worse than the North Face daypack I had in college.

  6. #21
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    So after using it again for my holiday travel, I can confidently say who I would recommend the Hero's Journey to:

    -Someone who travels frequently, and vehemently dislikes checking a bag, but regularly needs more space than the Aeronaut 45 offers (It is really convenient to unzip the top compartment when the overhead bins are getting full)
    -Someone who will go to the airport via car, and then their destination via car (It's not overly convenient for long bits of travel, transferring from one type of public transportation to another)
    -Someone who will on occasion need the bag for something like a non technical hike during their travels (I wouldn't take it to Patagonia, but it's perfectly capable for your average state park)
    -Someone who needs specifically all of these things on a regular basis (If you don't need the extra space and hike on a regular basis, I think you'd be much better off buying both an Aeronaut 45 and an actual backpacking bag for the same price or less as a Hero's Journey)

    It's a very specific person, but it is the right bag for someone.

  7. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darcy View Post

    @drupha We're sorry the Hero's Journey didn't work for you, and your feedback is noted. I think a bag like the one that @GrussGott posted a photo of might work better for you. The people we’ve heard from who truly love the Hero’s Journey see value in the compromises it makes to be both a front and backcountry bag, but those compromises certainly won’t work for everyone. And on that note: there are lots of bags in the world... if one of our bags isn't right for someone, there’s likely a bag out there made by someone else that is "the one".
    Darcy, I live on the east side of the state. Is there any chance that I could drop by sometime and have someone in the workshop add a side grab strap? It would definitely help in making the bag more awesome!

  8. #23
    TOM BIHN Crew (we work here) Darcy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GrussGott View Post
    Thanks for the reply Darcy, but I have to admit I don't understand it ... other than you're saying there won't be a "constructive feedback goes here" sub-forum. Fair enough and obviously your call.
    Thanks for your further thoughts, @GrussGott

    Re: “….tends to champion an individual’s personal opinion and experience as objective reality.”…

    I meant this within the context of discussing stuff like bags or high-speed blenders or laptops or cameras. There’s lots of discussion online about the various objects we use in our daily lives and most of it is super helpful — being able to read other people’s opinions and experiences of two different blenders, for example, helped me to make a more well-informed choice about something I was going to be buying sight-unseen. I think these Forums are a good example of that kind of discussion and how it can help people decide whether a bag is right for them or not — it’s why we started them way back when we did.

    Sometimes, though, that discussion (not here generally, but elsewhere) seems to get negative for the sake of being negative, uses extremes or insults in language, or becomes an argument for no apparently good reason, and then I find it becomes less interesting and less useful. I don’t want that for this community, and that’s in part because we often hear from folks that they like spending time here because this Forum isn’t like that.

    We don’t have plans to make a “constructive feedback goes here" sub-Forum because constructive feedback is already shared throughout these Forums, and that’s the way we like it: confining it to one particular sub-Forum or thread might limit or stifle it. I can think of some useful and relevant feedback about the Luminary and Stowaway in particular that was posted in the debut-related threads about those two bags.

    And these Forums are indeed unique. The civility with which constructive criticism is typically offered allows for a level of creativity and collaboration that I think can be really hard to have when people rag on stuff (or each other). It reminds me of the way we strive to do things within our company — we make an effort to recognize each other’s efforts and contributions and cultivate and maintain a culture in which honest and civil feedback is shared so we can aid each other in our goal of continual improvement.

    As for the 18l - 20l you’ve described: I think one of the most difficult things for me about the Forums is keeping secret all of the stuff we’re working on! Both Tom and Nik are already working on bags in that size range for travel; they may end up with two different bags, or what they’re working on may become one design. We’ll have to wait and see…….

    P.S. We saw an opportunity to add a paragraph to The Hero’s Journey product page to clarify who and for what the bag is designed. Here it is:

    The Hero’s Journey is a unique design intended for a particular use and it certainly isn’t for everyone. It is intended for adventure travelers seeking a hybrid bag — a compromise between a soft carry-on bag like our Aeronaut and a sophisticated internal frame backpacking/mountaineering pack. If you are hoping to use it extensively for backpacking, you might well find that it falls short of expectations for comfort: while the padded straps, back panel, and hip belt are of excellent quality, they are by design less lavish than one might find on packs that are intended exclusively for outdoor use. Key to appreciating The Hero’s Journey is recognizing the flexibility that it offers: being able to fly/train/bus to a trailhead (or other jumping-off point), all without checking your bags, is pretty sweet. Carrying one bag that can be as at home and look as good in an urban area or a nice hotel as it does on the trail is also pretty sweet. But being both carry-on luggage and internal frame backpack certainly involves compromises, and you will find that while the Hero’s Journey does both jobs fairly well, it likely won’t perform to the same extent as purpose-built bags will in either application. Take these grains of salt into account when deciding if this bag is for you: if it’s for you, our guess is you’ll love it.
    Current Carry: The Hero's Journey, Skookum Dog Citizen Canine, Founder's Briefcase, Synapse 19 (day hikes), Guide's Pack (longer day hikes), Yeoman Duffel (winter/emergency stuff for the car), Aeronaut 30 (travel), Night Flight Travel Duffel (camera bag), Moveable Feast + Shop Bags (food)

  9. #24
    TOM BIHN Crew (we work here) Darcy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by drupha View Post
    Darcy, I live on the east side of the state. Is there any chance that I could drop by sometime and have someone in the workshop add a side grab strap? It would definitely help in making the bag more awesome!
    Forgive me here because I may be a little confused (I've just sampled a drink that @icarusrex crafted as a "TOM BIHN cocktail" -- recipe to be shared tomorrow, just in time for New Year's): are you missing the optional side grab handle that is included with The Hero's Journey? (See here for a clip of that handle / how it attaches to The Hero's Journey.) If so, we'd be glad to offer one to you. And you'd always be welcome to come by the factory when we're here. That said, we can't add custom modifications to bags (it's just not practical for production reasons.)

    As for the creases on the shoulder strap of your Hero's Journey: to me, these look like the normal creases that can happen when foam is bent, as can happen when we quickly stow away the shoulder straps of our Aeronaut or Hero's Journey or Tri-Star without making sure they're tucked in straight down in the zippered shoulder strap compartment. Are you saying the straps were folding when you were wearing the bag? We haven't heard of that happening before, as far as I can recall.
    Current Carry: The Hero's Journey, Skookum Dog Citizen Canine, Founder's Briefcase, Synapse 19 (day hikes), Guide's Pack (longer day hikes), Yeoman Duffel (winter/emergency stuff for the car), Aeronaut 30 (travel), Night Flight Travel Duffel (camera bag), Moveable Feast + Shop Bags (food)

  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darcy View Post

    P.S. We saw an opportunity to add a paragraph to The Hero’s Journey product page to clarify who and for what the bag is designed. Here it is:

    The Hero’s Journey is a unique design intended for a particular use and it certainly isn’t for everyone. It is intended for adventure travelers seeking a hybrid bag — a compromise between a soft carry-on bag like our Aeronaut and a sophisticated internal frame backpacking/mountaineering pack. If you are hoping to use it extensively for backpacking, you might well find that it falls short of expectations for comfort: while the padded straps, back panel, and hip belt are of excellent quality, they are by design less lavish than one might find on packs that are intended exclusively for outdoor use. Key to appreciating The Hero’s Journey is recognizing the flexibility that it offers: being able to fly/train/bus to a trailhead (or other jumping-off point), all without checking your bags, is pretty sweet. Carrying one bag that can be as at home and look as good in an urban area or a nice hotel as it does on the trail is also pretty sweet. But being both carry-on luggage and internal frame backpack certainly involves compromises, and you will find that while the Hero’s Journey does both jobs fairly well, it likely won’t perform to the same extent as purpose-built bags will in either application. Take these grains of salt into account when deciding if this bag is for you: if it’s for you, our guess is you’ll love it.

    Perfect! I think that's a much better representation of the bag!

    Would it be possible to send me an extra grab strap such as is on the base of the bag? I've got an amazing seamstress who I'm pretty sure would be able to help me attach it securely and get this bag closer to my perfect bag!

  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darcy View Post
    Thanks for your further thoughts, @GrussGott

    We don’t have plans to make a “constructive feedback goes here" sub-Forum because constructive feedback is already shared throughout these Forums, and that’s the way we like it: confining it to one particular sub-Forum or thread might limit or stifle it. I can think of some useful and relevant feedback about the Luminary and Stowaway in particular that was posted in the debut-related threads about those two bags.
    I have to say I agree. I don't see any reason to hide it away in another sub-forum. I imagine most of the traffic hits general bags or photos and reviews anyway so its good to just keep it natural. It has been nice to follow the progress of this thread and to think more about the Hero's Journey. It's a bag I've been looking at, I love the modular capabilities, but I don't think I am in the category of need. Even on a real long trip I don't pack that much. If I am camping I already have a camping bag. We have seen too much together for me to abandon her at this point.

    What I would be interested in is a smaller modular bag design. Maybe a Hero's DayTrip. For that reason I am excited for the the new 19-20l category that is coming through the pipeline. The modular design may not work at that size, but really I just like the name.



    Quote Originally Posted by Darcy View Post
    Forgive me here because I may be a little confused (I've just sampled a drink that @icarusrex crafted as a "TOM BIHN cocktail" -- recipe to be shared tomorrow, just in time for New Year's

    Also a Tom Bihn Cocktail you say...hmmm, I'm guessing 1 part 1000d cordu-rum, 1 part coke, and garnished with a YKK zipper?

  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darcy View Post
    P.S. We saw an opportunity to add a paragraph to The Hero’s Journey product page to clarify who and for what the bag is designed. Here it is:

    The Hero’s Journey is a unique design intended for a particular use and it certainly isn’t for everyone. It is intended for adventure travelers seeking a hybrid bag — a compromise between a soft carry-on bag like our Aeronaut and a sophisticated internal frame backpacking/mountaineering pack. If you are hoping to use it extensively for backpacking, you might well find that it falls short of expectations for comfort: while the padded straps, back panel, and hip belt are of excellent quality, they are by design less lavish than one might find on packs that are intended exclusively for outdoor use. Key to appreciating The Hero’s Journey is recognizing the flexibility that it offers: being able to fly/train/bus to a trailhead (or other jumping-off point), all without checking your bags, is pretty sweet. Carrying one bag that can be as at home and look as good in an urban area or a nice hotel as it does on the trail is also pretty sweet. But being both carry-on luggage and internal frame backpack certainly involves compromises, and you will find that while the Hero’s Journey does both jobs fairly well, it likely won’t perform to the same extent as purpose-built bags will in either application.
    The beginning of this additional paragraph sets the HsJ up as a hybrid bag, between a soft carry-on like the Aeronaut and an internal frame mountaineering pack. I think that thinking of the HsJ as a hybrid bag is kind of missing the point of what a lot of people want out of their bags.

    My experiences of (admittedly European) air travel typically include an hour-plus walking and queueing in the airport and a 30-45 minute walk to and from accommodation. Three hours of wearing a pack surely merits optimum weight distribution and comfort even within the confines of an airport or city streets. I am not a backpacker, nor am I outdoorsy in the slightest, but until recently I have had to get hiking packs to carry my stuff comfortably. Even when not traveling, I live in a city and I can have my S25 on for 8 hours at a time while remaining within a mile of my house (and yes I am wildly excited about getting the internal frame next summer).

    I recognize that the HsJ makes compromises to be many different types of bag, but I do not see compromise as inherent in offering a comfortable framed ~35-45L urban travel bag as a matter of course. The GES25 proves that even though it is much smaller.

    I think some of the people drawn to the HsJ are like me, urban travelers who want a bag that distributes weight well and want something better organized than a Farpoint 40/55 or a Tortuga Outbreaker. I would love it if TB truly took on the task of marrying superbly organized urban travel with the best of backcountry comfort. The HsJ and the S25 internal frame are steps along the way but it would be really great if, for example, both Aeronauts had a frame option and hip belt attachment points on the bag itself. Soft carry on bags and frame packs don't need to be two different genres at all, and I think over time we will see even more options that are both. I just hope that several of them are made by TB!

    Thanks again Darcy for engaging so openly with us. Happy New Year!

  13. #28
    TOM BIHN Crew (we work here) Darcy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cristina View Post
    The beginning of this additional paragraph sets the HsJ up as a hybrid bag, between a soft carry-on like the Aeronaut and an internal frame mountaineering pack. I think that thinking of the HsJ as a hybrid bag is kind of missing the point of what a lot of people want out of their bags.

    My experiences of (admittedly European) air travel typically include an hour-plus walking and queueing in the airport and a 30-45 minute walk to and from accommodation. Three hours of wearing a pack surely merits optimum weight distribution and comfort even within the confines of an airport or city streets. I am not a backpacker, nor am I outdoorsy in the slightest, but until recently I have had to get hiking packs to carry my stuff comfortably. Even when not traveling, I live in a city and I can have my S25 on for 8 hours at a time while remaining within a mile of my house (and yes I am wildly excited about getting the internal frame next summer).

    I recognize that the HsJ makes compromises to be many different types of bag, but I do not see compromise as inherent in offering a comfortable framed ~35-45L urban travel bag as a matter of course. The GES25 proves that even though it is much smaller.

    I think some of the people drawn to the HsJ are like me, urban travelers who want a bag that distributes weight well and want something better organized than a Farpoint 40/55 or a Tortuga Outbreaker. I would love it if TB truly took on the task of marrying superbly organized urban travel with the best of backcountry comfort. The HsJ and the S25 internal frame are steps along the way but it would be really great if, for example, both Aeronauts had a frame option and hip belt attachment points on the bag itself. Soft carry on bags and frame packs don't need to be two different genres at all, and I think over time we will see even more options that are both. I just hope that several of them are made by TB!

    Thanks again Darcy for engaging so openly with us. Happy New Year!
    What I'm hearing is that your perhaps ideal bag would be a smaller version of The Hero's Journey with a more involved suspension system, along the lines of what one might find on a pack designed/dedicated for outdoor backpacking use. Makes sense, and your thoughtful feedback is noted.

    Quote Originally Posted by edward.dennihy View Post
    Also a Tom Bihn Cocktail you say...hmmm, I'm guessing 1 part 1000d cordu-rum, 1 part coke, and garnished with a YKK zipper?
    Oh man, a YKK zipper garnish would've been good. And Cordu-rum, hehe. Here's the real deal recipes: A TOM BIHN Cocktail for New Year’s

    Quote Originally Posted by drupha View Post
    Would it be possible to send me an extra grab strap such as is on the base of the bag? I've got an amazing seamstress who I'm pretty sure would be able to help me attach it securely and get this bag closer to my perfect bag!
    Send a note to emailus@tombihn.com and our crew can arrange that. Note: we do not normally send out parts at no charge unless we're replacing a defective one or it was missing from a bag purchased directly from us. That said, we've occasionally done this in the past, especially if it was the first request -- and then we typically add the part in question to the Parts page for purchase, if we think other folks might ask for the same. Also of note: if one modifies their bag, that particular part of the bag is not covered by our lifetime guarantee.

    ...

    And here's just some final thoughts on what's been discussed in this thread with the intent of offering some insight into our process, or why we make the choices we do: sometimes we’re inspired to design a bag because one of us has gone on a trip, watched people using their bags, and it’s occurred to us that there’s a bag we could design that might work better for them. Or, sometimes it’s ourselves that we observe when traveling — if what we’re carrying this time isn’t the perfect bag for this trip, what would be? While we certainly take feedback into account and put ourselves in the shoes of travelers, hikers, and commuters when we design, we also come up with designs because there’s something in us that wants to make that particular design. The idea and the inspiration is there: let’s make it real, put it out there, and see if people make good use of it or not*. I know this might sound odd — and you might be wondering, why wouldn't we pre-determine as best as one can as to whether it’s going to sell well, and ditch it if not? While we do pay attention to such business matters, part of our mission is to ensure those matters don't eclipse our creativity. Many of our most popular designs are designs unlike anything that was out there at the time and are designs that nobody hoped for or asked us to make. Some of those now-popular designs were before their time and took a little while to catch on. And, of course, there's designs that we put out there that never did catch on.

    Tom didn’t design The Hero’s Journey to be a bag for a lot of people — he designed it to be a bag that would work very well for a few, like his past self who backpacked around Europe in his 20’s or his future self that will go on a hut-hiking trip in the Alps.

    Perhaps, ultimately, what's being sought here is yet another, different design -- one that Tom or Nik may take on in the future. :)

    *There's one design I'm thinking of in particular right now: a small, rather silly accessory that I asked Tom and Nik to make just for me. We may debut it at some point, and I'm fairly certain there's only going to be like, five other people in the whole world who will appreciate/use it. That said, we've done the work, so maybe we'll put it out there and see what everyone thinks.
    Last edited by Darcy; 01-03-2018 at 12:37 PM.
    Current Carry: The Hero's Journey, Skookum Dog Citizen Canine, Founder's Briefcase, Synapse 19 (day hikes), Guide's Pack (longer day hikes), Yeoman Duffel (winter/emergency stuff for the car), Aeronaut 30 (travel), Night Flight Travel Duffel (camera bag), Moveable Feast + Shop Bags (food)

  14. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darcy View Post
    Sometimes we’re inspired to design a bag because one of us has gone on a trip, watched people using their bags, and it’s occurred to us that there’s a bag we could design that might work better for them. Or, sometimes it’s ourselves that we observe when traveling — if what we’re carrying this time isn’t the perfect bag for this trip, what would be? While we certainly take feedback into account and put ourselves in the shoes of travelers, hikers, and commuters when we design, we also come up with designs because there’s something in us that wants to make that particular design. The idea and the inspiration is there: let’s make it real, put it out there, and see if people make good use of it or not*. I know this might sound odd — and you might be wondering, why not use a focus group for every design we make, pre-determine as best as one can as to whether it’s going to sell well, and ditch it if not? While we do pay attention to such business matters, part of our mission is to ensure those matters don't eclipse our creativity. Many of our most popular designs are designs unlike anything that was out there at the time and are designs that nobody hoped for or asked us to make. Some of those now-popular designs were before their time and took a little while to catch on. And, of course, there's designs that we put out there that never did catch on.

    Tom didn’t design The Hero’s Journey to be a bag for a lot of people — he designed it to be a bag that would work very well for a few, like his past self who backpacked around Europe in his 20’s or his future self that will go on a hut-hiking trip in the Alps. Perhaps what you’re seeking is yet another, different design -- one that Tom or Nik may take on in the future.
    Wow I must have been really unclear in my writing!! Sorry about that.

    I really really like the HsJ. I haven't gotten one because I am under 5'8" and I live in Europe so it is slightly too big all around for me, but I love how it changes from one bag to another. If there ever were a Euro-sized one I would be all over it.

    I totally get and respect that TB is run based largely on the creative vision of one man and I have said as much on here in the past. My other point was more general, about how there seems to be a divide in the world of travel backpacks: a bag is either an outdoorsy hiking pack and it is comfortable with a good harness and hip belt (but is a bright color and has lots of dangling straps), OR it is for urban travel and it has no hip belt and it is only comfortable to be worn for short periods of time. To me this divide is artificial and makes no sense, as I end up wearing my bag for hours when I engage in urban travel (this may be a feature of European travel?)

    I am happy that a couple of companies have started to take this on in the last five years.

    Hope that was clearer!

  15. #30
    TOM BIHN Crew (we work here) Darcy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cristina View Post
    Wow I must have been really unclear in my writing!! Sorry about that.
    I think I'm the one who ought to be sorry here, @Cristina -- I responded in haste yesterday (more proof that multi-tasking isn't all that it's cracked up to be.) See the above edited response. :)
    Current Carry: The Hero's Journey, Skookum Dog Citizen Canine, Founder's Briefcase, Synapse 19 (day hikes), Guide's Pack (longer day hikes), Yeoman Duffel (winter/emergency stuff for the car), Aeronaut 30 (travel), Night Flight Travel Duffel (camera bag), Moveable Feast + Shop Bags (food)

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