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View Poll Results: Have you removed the aluminum stay from your internal frame?

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  • No, I have not removed the aluminum stay.

    23 79.31%
  • Yes, I have removed the aluminum stay.

    6 20.69%
Results 1 to 11 of 11
  1. #1
    TOM BIHN Crew (we work here) Darcy's Avatar
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    Have you ever removed the aluminum stay from your internal frame?

    Hi everyone,

    Tom and Nik wanted me to ask: have any of you removed the aluminum stay from your internal frames? If so, why? And, if so, did you put it back in the frame?

    Our current understanding is that very, very few people remove the aluminum stay, but we wanted to get more data on this if we can. There's no reason we can think of (or have experienced ourselves) to remove the stay.
    Current Carry: The Hero's Journey, Skookum Dog Citizen Canine, Founder's Briefcase, Synapse 19 (day hikes), Guide's Pack (longer day hikes), Yeoman Duffel (winter/emergency stuff for the car), Aeronaut 30 (travel), Night Flight Travel Duffel (camera bag), Moveable Feast + Shop Bags (food)

  2. #2
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    I never even thought about removing it. IIRC, it was necessary to move it for installation in the S25? But I wouldn't otherwise even think of moving it. I don't remember how I installed the A30, or even if it even has an aluminum stay, but I never considered removing it either.

  3. #3
    Volunteer Moderator
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    @Darcy,

    Some people want minimally more support at the back of a backpack without the extra weight. But the other instance I can think of where this gets done is experimenting with extending use to different bags ó for example when we had people try the frames fit A30 and A45 in the Smart Alec, Tri-Star, and Western Flyer.

    Iím also not sure how much people adapt the bar shape to their backs for optimal fit.

    moriond

  4. #4
    Forum Member Rocks's Avatar
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    I took mine out to try to shape it to my spine better and out of curiosity. Then I put it back in.

  5. #5
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    I removed mine once, for no particular reason. This was while my S25 frame was out of commission Ė*I was waiting for a replacement T-Bar to arrive.

    I didn't think it would be a big deal Ė after all, the frame sheet video shows the stay pulling out very easily.

    However, this was a mistake.

    The protective end cap came off of the bottom of the aluminum stay and remained at the bottom of the sleeve ... I didn't realize this at first, and couldn't figure out why I couldn't get the stay all of the way back in. It finally occurred to me that the protective cap was still in the sleeve and that I needed to get it out. THIS WAS NOT EASY.

    But, I succeeded and got everything back together again. :-)

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by idbjorh View Post
    The protective end cap came off of the bottom of the aluminum stay and remained at the bottom of the sleeve ... I didn't realize this at first, and couldn't figure out why I couldn't get the stay all of the way back in. It finally occurred to me that the protective cap was still in the sleeve and that I needed to get it out. THIS WAS NOT EASY.
    This happened to me too. It took quite a while to push the cap up and out of the super snug fabric sleeve. I sent feedback to Customer Service and was told more recent stays don't have caps on them anymore. Next time, I will be careful to push up on the cap from the outside of the sleeve as I pull the stay to make sure it comes out completely (and then I will probably ditch the cap, since TB says the cap is not necessary).

    I experimented with removing the stays in the A45 and S19. My reasoning was, I am not using the hip belts on those bags, so no weight is being transferred to my hips anyway. I have had issues with the A45 bunching up on the back surface when underpacked (maybe also because I'm short), and the stay-less frame in the A45 eliminated the bunching without the weight of the stay. However, I currently use the A45 frame with the stay (still without hip belt) because I realized the stay is what keeps the frame in a more comfortable S-shape. That is, the stay-less frame is merely smooth; the frame with stay is contoured to my back.

    This is more about removing the frame altogether, rather than just the stay, but: I once broke the T-bar while removing the frame from my S19. Of course I was trying to be gentle, but the plastic T-Bar cracked anyway. I sent feedback about how I don't see why the top flap of the sleeve is sewn down so much but was told it was to keep the stay from shifting. I don't understand this, since the rest of the fabric sleeve that covers like 85% of the stay will keep the stay from shifting side to side already. If they mean that the way top flap is sewn down keeps the whole frame from moving side to side relative to the T-bar once installed in the bag, I think there would still be very limited movement due to the way the T-bar is shaped. I remain on the fence about having a frame in the S19 due to the weight-to-benefit ratio, which is why I was removing and reinstalling the frame multiple times, and will continue to experiment with a stay-less frame in that bag.

  7. #7
    Forum Member bchaplin's Avatar
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    I tried mine with and without, but nothing worked for me, because apparently my back is messed up in a myriad of ways.
    Last edited by bchaplin; 03-01-2019 at 07:22 AM.
    ----
    All tyranny needs to gain a foothold is for people of good conscience to remain silent.
    Edmund Burke

  8. #8
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    I'll start out by saying I had a S25, returned it, then bought it again with the frame sheet really really hoping it would work for me. I'm still trying to pin down exactly how I want to have it set up and packed.

    I've messed around with no frame, frame with no stay, and frame with stay. Just earlier today before reading this I took the metal stay out to give it more uses without the stay (for now at least)
    I have found that I like removing the stay to commute with the bag via bicycle. The stay is great for when you're standing upright. Once I get on my bike though my spine is now a completely different shape and therefore the stay would be uncomfortable! I like having the sheet still in there to keep things from poking me and helping just "smooth" out the back from bulging. Being able to remove the stay has made it more comfortable for biking and lighter as well. If the stay wasn't removable I don't think I'd use the frame sheet at all, or just use it sparingly when I know I will only be standing and walking with the bag on (and would most likely just consider it useless for my needs).

    Sent from my XT1575 using Tapatalk

  9. #9
    Forum Member wavebeam's Avatar
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    I've said this a few times, but I removed mine. I keep it handy in case I'd ever feel I needed it, but honestly, I don't see that happening. I really just wanted the "poke barrier". To that end, the sheet itself does great. Love it.

  10. #10
    Forum Member melminimalist's Avatar
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    Iíve never removed the stay, didnít see a reason too. The frame sheet is a definite must for the s25 when packing it full.


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
    "Not all who wander are lost"
    "Love people, use things, because the opposite never works" - The Minimalists
    Synapse 25 in Olive, Aubergine Side Effect, UV A30 PCBP, Sitka PCSB

  11. #11
    TOM BIHN Crew (we work here) Darcy's Avatar
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    Many thanks, everyone, for your feedback and for participating in the poll.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fluff View Post
    This is more about removing the frame altogether, rather than just the stay, but: I once broke the T-bar while removing the frame from my S19. Of course I was trying to be gentle, but the plastic T-Bar cracked anyway. I sent feedback about how I don't see why the top flap of the sleeve is sewn down so much but was told it was to keep the stay from shifting. I don't understand this, since the rest of the fabric sleeve that covers like 85% of the stay will keep the stay from shifting side to side already. If they mean that the way top flap is sewn down keeps the whole frame from moving side to side relative to the T-bar once installed in the bag, I think there would still be very limited movement due to the way the T-bar is shaped. I remain on the fence about having a frame in the S19 due to the weight-to-benefit ratio, which is why I was removing and reinstalling the frame multiple times, and will continue to experiment with a stay-less frame in that bag.
    Sorry for the hassle of the T-bar, Fluff. It's very rare that that happens but that doesn't make it any less of a hassle for the person to whom it does happen!

    The top flap is there so that the stay doesn't shift too far up vertically (as opposed to side-to-side). The stitching on the top flap creates a little pocket that's meant to ensure that any tension on the top of the frame -- tension that could make the frame pull away from the stay at the top -- doesn't result in the stay popping open the velcro.
    Current Carry: The Hero's Journey, Skookum Dog Citizen Canine, Founder's Briefcase, Synapse 19 (day hikes), Guide's Pack (longer day hikes), Yeoman Duffel (winter/emergency stuff for the car), Aeronaut 30 (travel), Night Flight Travel Duffel (camera bag), Moveable Feast + Shop Bags (food)

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